Do You Know Saturn’s Signature in Your Life?

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Amanda and Natasha Alter discuss Saturn in Astrology and Karma.

On today’s episode, you’ll learn…
🌑About the profound role of Saturn in astrology and its unique ability to crystallize and densify, influencing the karmic patterns in our lives.
🌒How to understand and navigate the complex concept of karma, and how it’s intricately tied to Saturn’s influence.
🌓From Natasha’s personal journey with Saturn, her contemplations, and her experiences from her astrology practice

🌟 Explore the mysteries of the stars with Astrologer Connect, your premier source for quality astrology readings.

You can now access Astrologer Connect to unlock the secrets of the cosmos and gain insight into your life’s journey. Visit and discover how Astrology can transform your life today.

Astrology Readings

Amanda: [00:00:00] Hello everybody and welcome to the Astrology Hub Podcast. I’m so happy to be here with all of you and absolutely thrilled to be back with Natasha Alter astrologer and one of my dearest friends on the planet and the woman that I had my first as astrology reading with. And pretty much the reason why all of us are here at Astrology Hub, because if I hadn’t had that reading and if I hadn’t met Natasha, none of this would’ve happened, and that’s kind of what we’re talking about here today.

We’re talking, this is the second installment of a series that we’re calling the Saturn Chronicles. So this is part two. Today we’re gonna be talking about the Will of Karma. We started to talk about this last time on part one, which if you missed it, I highly recommend you go check it out. It is called the Saturn Chronicles Part one.

Incarnation and it was mind blowing. I’m gonna recap some of my favorite moments from that episode here in just a sec. But where we ended [00:01:00] off was on this concept of karma and why Saturn is associated with karma and how learning to work with Saturn’s, um, essence is in a way helping us work with our own karma.

So we talked about what karma even is and we dispel, we dispelled some of the myths around it or some of the ideas around it. And it was powerful and everybody in the comments was saying, when are you gonna come back? Please come back, do another episode. So here we are. So a couple of things that we did on that first episode is we talked about why Saturn is associated with things like limitations, responsibility, time mortality, and death accountability.

And like I said, karma. And Natasha took us on this extraordinary journey from being spirits or dis [00:02:00] incarnate. No, not in bodies. And then she took us through the gates of the different planetary bodies and what we kind of pick up at each gate. And we ended at Saturn the, we ended at the gates of Saturn.

And what Saturn does for us in terms of bringing us into this third dimension reality into form, into our bodies. And we talked about how Saturn creates this. It’s almost like we, we go into a box and one of my favorite moments was when, when I asked the question, when do we exit the box? You know, we come in, we’re in this box, and I know a lot of us feel like God.

I’m like, I’m in this box. There’s all these limitations. There’s, you know, all these rules and things I can’t get out of like time and aging and death, you know, all these things. And she says, When we learn to love the box. And it was like, oh wow, okay. And then she says, when we no longer have resistance [00:03:00] to that box, and then finally when we accept the consequences of our choices.

And it was one of those mic drop moments where it was just like, oh, okay. And so now we’re here. And Natasha, I just wanna welcome you back. 

Natasha’s Experience With Saturn & Sharing it’s Lessons

Amanda: I know that you’ve had your own experience since we did that first recording. How, like, how did you, you, how do you feel even sharing this Saturn information and illuminating some of the things that you have so far about Saturn for all of 

Natasha: us.

You know, for me it’s a personal process that I am sharing basically, you know, I went through my second Saturn return as I mentioned last time, and that’s when all of a sudden the, a lot of things kind of clear up around the processes Saturn is governing here and how it forms our reality, [00:04:00] and the consequences and all, all that have been mentioned.

So, um, since then, there was a certain reflection and I am, I keep at it. All the times have changed. Moment is different right now. Uh, we moved into different energies, so that all impacts the perception. Uh, but I do keep, coming back, adding few strings. So yeah, I felt good and I think it’s a work in progress.

I think it’s a meditation for, for me and for many others. It’s a contemplation probably over lifetimes that it feels like it’s not the first time I’m trying to, poke through those veils. Uh, it’s fun, it’s daunting, it’s totally, , unknown and yet, that’s what makes it so, interesting. Having said that, I [00:05:00] would like to add that everything that we’ve talked about and everything you just mentioned, now, It’s seen from a particular lens of one astrologer through her journey, through lifetime, through her studies, through her astrology practice.

So the technology or the complexity of karma, reincarnations Saturn itself, which is, you know, one of the huge mysteries out there in our solar system. It’s cannot be comprehended really by our limited perception. And, um, so everything that has been verbalized and shared is the way. I could process through my own [00:06:00] understanding.

So let’s keep in mind the truth, like the, the an actual mechanism, uh, and, uh, cosmic, um, copi conspiracy out there. It’s too complex for us perhaps, but what happens? We are getting glimpses and we are getting glimpses through recognizing the same patterns through going through life and seeing the certain consistencies and astrology work and knowledge of astrology and practice of astrology and witnessing so many destinies going through, you in your practice being, an observer, uh, of, of so many patterns that what stimulates that contemplation.

So that was a little disclaimer I tried to put into the box. 

Amanda: Yes. Well, and I think that’s true for all of us as [00:07:00] we study astrology, as we learn about the cosmos, it’s really important not to take any one astrologer and say, this is the truth and this is the way it is. It’s like we’re all contributing to the, uh, the knowledge base.

But at the same time, like you said, it’s not like any one of us is probably ever gonna like, crack the code in this, uh, lifetime. You know? And I think, uh, something else that you said that it’s like kind of uncomprehensible for us, like from this vantage point, and it is that experience of having glimpses.

It’s like even, even when I think back to that first episode, it’s like, I remember being in, in the experience of receiving that episode, And feeling like, okay, I’m sort of like, I’m catching it. Like I can sort of taste it, I can kind of understand it, and then it’s gone. You know? And then it’s just, and then it’s like, oh shoot, wait, [00:08:00] what, what did we talk about?

I didn’t remember. So I, I definitely understand this, this process of like glimpses and then it’s kind of like we go back to sleep and it’s one of the questions I actually had after last time, Natasha, is, 

Incarnation and the Process of “Forgetting”

Amanda: and this I know of course is just gonna be your, your opinion or your experience of it, but why do we forget?

Like why do we go through this in incarnation process, go through these gates again? Who knows if that’s what really happens, but, and then why do we forget about our ex, you know, our spiritual selves and our connection to the divine? And why do you think that’s part of the mechanism?

Natasha: Well, let’s, let’s, uh, look at it the other way. What would happen if we remembered, we’d probably be overwhelmed. That’s one response. We can be overwhelmed when it’s something new. You know, if, if right now all the [00:09:00] video of all your incarnations on this plane would, would be shown to you.

You might have been overwhelmed. Might be overwhelmed, but you could see familiar characters. That’s fun. However, if you are in the flow of in and out incarnating dis incarnating and traveling through dimensions and, uh, materializing dematerializing, and it’s no longer overwhelming, then what happens?

You come here and then, you know, You know that this is, uh, one of endless amount of versions of reality. You know, that you are eternally connected to the source or you are a so part of the source of the, of the great hole where we all come out and we still are part of that part. So you, you just know. [00:10:00] So what would hold you here when you know that there are realms you can go outside of time and space where you don’t need to deal with the physical body and all the side effects of dragging it around.

You don’t need to deal with mortality with farewells, where separations with the loss of your loved ones, you know, like. Why? Why would you be here? I mean, maybe to have some experiments and it seems that a lot of what’s going on here is having an experience. It seems that some souls are here to have that extremely limiting, dense experience because it is through us, through the souls that the universe learns about itself.

It is through every [00:11:00] single life form, through every rock, through every and through every tree, through every human, animal, planet, galaxy, and so on. That universe actually knows itself. So one of the versions that is where we are here in this, in this weird box, which we’re trying to figure out how to, uh, navigate.

So my answer would be like, okay, so what happens if we do, remember we don’t have this veil for getting what would motivate us to be here. It’s number one. Number two, it seems that, I mean, again, back to Saturn, it seems that, you know, the, the, the, uh, challenges we meet through lifetimes stimulate the development here.[00:12:00] 

So there needs to be a certain diversity. The friction of the polarities, the duality, the friction of the opposites that stimulates the life itself in this form, in the form of matter. And it can happen that in other dimensions or other realms, the friction is not needed because it’s dematerialized. So the only way for the matter to exist is through yin and yang, through the duality or through polarity.

That’s why we have on the chart like six polarities. Right? So, um, yeah, that would be my answer. And I don’t know the answer, but I’m just thinking, I’m answering a question to your question. You know, I ran into some time a couple of years [00:13:00] ago into this interesting, um, quote of a woman, an esoteric who said that she found in some ancient Vedic scriptures that the ancients, whoever these ancients are not necessarily the old men with the beards because the ancients can be different life forms together.

But the ancients have put a veil around this planet for humanity to temporary forget.

And there was somebody who mentioned magnetic field around the earth. That is one of those mechanisms that keep this like super consciousness of sun and all the other energies to penetrate. Thus keeping the awareness at the certain level. Why did they do that? [00:14:00] Maybe it was the new time is coming where our might powers, you know, have to be limited somehow.

Maybe it’s a part of experiment. I have no answer to that, but it definitely feels like some veil is operating. And that’s why when we hear, uh, I think I, uh, uh, we’ve heard it together or we were at the same conference, the accounts of the astronauts bursting through the magnetic, field of the earth and coming into the open, that all of a sudden they feel a sense of euphoria.

They lose that sense of heaviness of the dense presence here. So, and there is that feeling of, um, close to the unity consciousness in some Wow. Like this overwhelming, expansive feeling of, belonging.[00:15:00] So yeah, these are all the questions and I don’t have answer, but we can just use, use our little minds to play with that and maybe go to some ancient sources as well, which seem to code have encoded certain secrets there.

Amanda: And one of them being astrology. Yes. 

Natasha: One of them being astrology. Exactly. Which we’re still trying to decode 

Amanda: here. Yes, we are. 

What is Karma?

Amanda: Okay. So let’s go to the idea of karma. First of all, can you define karma for us in, oh 

Natasha: my god. Okay. No, no. Ok, let’s go. Let’s do that.


Amanda: So let’s define karma and then can you please talk about Saturn’s role in, in keeping our, karmic, experience alive. 

Natasha: Okay. So karma is not, uh, known. [00:16:00] That’s very important to know. It is a verb, which means it’s an ongoing process. Right. And it operates on the plane of cause and effect that we live in.

So it’s very simple, you know, every little action has a reaction or what you saw, so shall you read. That’s basically an ongoing process of, interfacing with this reality. How we interface, what do we, leave behind, what kind of imprints we’re living, you know, all of that. They, they, the result of our deeds, you know, that’s what they say about the.

The, the, the Shani, which is the Vedic, uh, name of Saturn. I’m here to give you the results of your deeds. It’s all about the deeds, you know? So, yeah, it’s an [00:17:00] ongoing, it’s life itself. You know, it’s like every moment we are now talking, there is certain karma we are building still, again, all over again.

What is Saturn’s Role in Karma?

Natasha: Now, what was the other question? Uh, SAT’s role. Okay. Well, the way I see it, first of all, I see the whole chart and there is no a single planet as far as I’m concerned, that you can pull out this, see this one here, everything is here and the rest just happened to be here when Incarnate, just like occasionally, you know, Mars is sitting there.

I don’t see that way. It’s all one system. It’s a live system, and every element in that system is a part of the code. However, what happens with Saturn, it has the, uh, I wanted to say tendency. [00:18:00] Yeah, it has the tendency to crystallize. So I see it as that membrane. You know, where you launch, you launch something, you launch your action, your emotion, your whatever.

You meet somebody and something happens and it’s like, it, it, it balances against that membrane and it’s meant to come back to you. You know, that why SA delivers you the results of your actions. It’s neither good or bad. It has no bias, it has no preferences. It’s just, it’s a mechanism that keeps the law of cause and effect in place.

So, as we know, Saturn, densifies and crystallize, right? It makes it thick and, and, and, and, and, and, and heavy, you know, so it sticks around in case [00:19:00] you wanna run away from that. You won’t because it sticks around. That’s why, you know, Saturn is associated there, is called the Lord of Karma. You know, it’s, it, it, it, it goes and it’s like, you might come back over and over again, but it’s, it kind of like keeps the pattern, , and presents it to you each time. 

The Process of Incarnation

Natasha: I want to add when talking about karma, and that’s again, my personal experience as a result of observation and contemplation and studies. There are very different ways why we come In other words, there are different reasons for incarnation. What I can kind of, uh, comprehend is that some incarnations are intentional.

In other words, the soul chooses to incarnate. So there is conscious, choice on the soul level to [00:20:00] return on the reuptake, the journey. Then I’ve seen also the new souls completely new from whatever realms they come from. For some reason they need to be here. And, uh, I can tell that case later. I had one case where I saw the, the chart of a, of a child who completely clean slate new soul, which he also shared with his mother.

I just got a call once or email once. There was a woman who was having a lot of questions around her boy because she’s, she didn’t know what to do with him because at the age of two and a half, as soon as he started talking, he told her, he described to her how he chose her and why he chose her. And he said like, when we, we were choosing mothers, he [00:21:00] said, and I chose you because of this and that.

So I look at his chart and, oh boy, I mean, there is like a zero Aries, rising and luminaries, own in the first house. There’s hardly anything else. And, uh, well of course there is something else, but I mean, like there is this junk, this, this huge energy and RIS in the first house, and I think there was like a tourist cells snow or something, in the second.

But, so, um, fusing the, account of the mother with what I’m seeing. I’m clearly seeing a whole new entry. And I seen there is no karma here. It’s a whole new, uh, beginning. So that’s why, and I, I’ve seen some other, or I, let’s put it this way, I met maybe some other people who were kind of like, accidentally or not accidentally or intentionally just [00:22:00] like knew.

However, what we are mostly talking about and what I am mostly addressing here and when, when I talk about karma is this kind of a loop.

It’s the loop, it’s the, uh, uh, uh, it’s the incar or reincarnation that is, uh, almost like has a certain mechanical energy behind it where we are pulled back because of what we have established on this plane in other lifetimes.

So this is what I, you know, mostly, I mostly deal with in astrology practice. And that what feels that a lot of what is happening here on the planet is the looping process.

Now, what was, uh, the next process I wanted to go through in order for us to actually feel, [00:23:00] um, let’s be that boy. Let’s become that boy. We are completely new. We have nothing yet here. Know any imprints? And so we entered this box. Uh, we enter this realm, this solar system to incarnate. So let’s imagine.

So we, we are in this box of time and space.

are other people in this box with us. We incarnate with others. I mean, we incarnate to a mother. So that’s like a primary or like there, there is a father. Whether present or not, there are siblings, there is this, there are grandparents, you know, then there are friends, then there are other friends, and then there are, oh, we fall in love.

So we incarnating that net of already existing connections and, we start to respond. [00:24:00] So every time we engaged, we engage with this world. From the very beginning, it feels like it weaves a certain pattern reactions and responses and consequences of those responses. It’s like every time we act out and engage, it’s like we put a certain dent in the reality If you imagine that this fabric of reality that we are, it’s pretty thick, right? It’s pretty dense because for the matter to exist, the vibration has to go really down. It really has to slow, which makes slow down. So it, it’s kind of like makes everything very thick, I call it. So [00:25:00] everything we release and every connection we make, and the consequences of those connections things so that are going inside our reactions, our internal processes, and the result of those processes, the choice, everything, we are weaving that web of patterns.

In the fabric of reality. And because it’s like so sticky, it kind of lives, it lives behind a whole life imprint, a template, you know, which kind of exists already independently on whether you went further, you know, uh, uh, it kind of is there. I mean, it shouldn’t sound scary, like, oh my God, what, what have I done?

No, no, no. It, it shouldn’t sound bad, but it, it, it kind of feels that way [00:26:00] that everything, every, seed we plant will give its, flowers or its, um, it will germinate, right? So it’s pretty logical, right? There’s nothing around it. So as, so it, it, it, it feels like by the end of lifetime, you know, we’ve accumulated in our consciousness, certain set of patterns that are, are, are, are not going anywhere and we are taking them with us wherever we go.

And that is to me, what kind of like creates an impulse to reincarnate or reenter, I call it like this irresistible impulse to reenter. You know, it’s like we are magnetized right back to those, templates, to this [00:27:00] vibrational kind of a, a pattern. That we both left here in matter and we took with us.

So it becomes like we just come back and we are just yanked right, right in back to where we left off. Now again, this is just one of the perspectives, however, it feels to me personally that this is one of the mechanisms. It’s like you, you, you, you, you, you, uh, uh, have a cord and you launch it and it just comes right back because of the 10 of the tension and contraction, right?

Expansion and contraction. 

So this is, um, in few words, if one can describe this crazy, incomprehensible, pattern. That is what it feels to me. You know, I, I How does it [00:28:00] feel to you? You know, does it make any sense? 

Amanda: It absolutely makes sense. And as you’re speaking, ever since I was a little girl, I would imagine that I am a part of a cell that’s in a larger body, and then there’s a bigger body.

And like we’re, you know, we have cells in our body, so there’s like, there’s tiny universes in us, and then we’re part of this big. Absolutely. And so when you’re, when you’re talking, I’m like literally imagining a cell and Saturn creating the membrane or the cell wall, and all of us sort of, you know, these electrons and, you know, just Yes.

Bouncing off the wall and, uh, and creating life through that. 

Natasha: Exactly. Exactly. Life here. Exactly right. As 

Amanda: we know it. So it, it makes sense and it doesn’t make sense at the same time. Because of course, I always come back to the question of why, like, what is the [00:29:00] point of this? And I know there’s, there’s various answers.

Uh, and I’m not really expecting you to have the answer. 

Natasha: Thank you. 

Why Incarnation?

Amanda: But I’m curious, you know, I know that you study a lot of different perspectives and a lot of different traditions and a lot of different, you know, inspired thinkers and people, enlightened beings who have been on this earth. I mean, is there somewhat of a consensus for, for the why of, of doing this?

Natasha: The why? There are many whys and it all depends. Uh, and I think all of them might be true, you know, so there is like a. perspective of lessons to learn. Well, that can be legitimate, right? Uh, why not? You know, we are learning lessons as we go and we return [00:30:00] to, uh, reuptake and, uh, the term evolution is connected to them for them who like that, you know, process of evolution of the soul.

Although I’m not completely convinced that that’s what’s happening. As I mentioned, uh, the experience, it’s, it’s necessary. I mean, every dimension has, needs, needs to be experienced. That’s another, and I think this is more, uh, or less all covering why? I mean it simply because it’s here, simply because this dimension is one of the.

Infinite parts of the universe that need to exist, that do exist. And so it needs to be witnessed and experienced. So the why, if the why comes from reluctance, it’s one thing. If the why comes from [00:31:00] curiosity, it gives you a whole different filter to try to understand it. Now, if we talk about ancient sources, uh, there is often mention of this will, which is more of a, you know, squirrel in the will kind of thing than an evolutionary will.

Uh, that we will keep doing it until we wake up. So there can be something here too. There can be some seed or some hint there as well. You know, that we will keep doing it as long as, as we think, or that as long as we, uh, think that the chords that we form here are one and only thing that exists and we don’t remember [00:32:00] ourselves.

Here’s what I, I, feel sometimes that every time we release something, an emotion, emotion has its own pattern, its own geometric pattern. The, uh, denser, so to say the emotion is, or the action, let’s say the more it’s. Um, in woven or attached to the, to this plain?

The more our values in the values are connected with external material values, you know, the, the thicker our emotional patterns are filled with fears and, and regrets and, uh, guilt and what have you, or adversities and conflict. The [00:33:00] more it’s glued somehow to this plane, you know, the, the, the, the, the lower the vibration, the more it finds its resonance and sticks around.

That’s what it feel, it feels like. The more we refine our emotional body, our consciousness, the way we interact, uh, in the give and take, uh, relationship, the, the lighter or the higher they would call it, the frequency is the less imprints it tends to leave behind. And as far as I’m concerned, the only, or let’s say one of the energies that feels like leave no imprint, doesn’t do any dance, doesn’t create any [00:34:00] hooks.

I call them hooks, you know, emotional hooks. The, the only state that doesn’t do it is the state of unconditional love. There is something about that, and I’m not talking about emotion of love. You know, love is not really an emotion. It’s a state of consciousness.

And that state of unconditional love, which we, who are striving to get to somehow is that vibration where, which no longer has any hooks, seems to be, because it supersedes the existing field, because it’s so uni, it’s so universal, you know, it’s like, it’s so connected to the source of creation.

So yeah, once again, the. Emotions we release the actions [00:35:00] and reactions we release, the thoughts we have as well. Cuz thoughts do, uh, create their own reality, even though it doesn’t express itself in matter. All of that operate on the certain frequency and more or less are living behind those heavy imprints that magnetize you back to reincarnate.

You see, it feels like we create a field that tools the soul back with, its, with its very frequency. And that’s why we have all the ancient, uh, traditions that are aimed to elevate.

Consciousness, right? Elevate the emotional body. Um, work [00:36:00] on one’s own feelings, thoughts, and actions. That’s why, you know, it goes, you know, it’s, it’s the, the heritage that we have through ancient religious traditions, through cosmologies, through, um, uh, texts and, and, and, um, um, messages that we’ve got. There is something about elevating the frequency,

uh, refining our presence here, healing, transforming, transmuting.

That’s why we have, for instance, the ancient Egyptian sco. I don’t remember what temple it was, where we see the scene of, passage to the [00:37:00] afterlife of the soul, or don’t know who, whoever that was. And, and what, what is on the scale. There’s a scale with the heart on one side and what’s on the other side?

A feather.

So what does it mean? A feather against the heart

you are living if are living your lifetime with a heart light as a feather without any heavy, Trails or, uh, emotions accumulated within, you know, unresolved conflicts, unfinished, painful agendas that are still hovering there. And it’s in your heart. You, you are sent back and that seems to be like such a, such a mm, a visually strong message [00:38:00] there.

Right. And that’s why I mentioned the unconditional love, because that’s kind of like, it’s, it’s the heart of a feather.

It takes everything, without personal. Response filled with loaded, emotion. You know, it’s a state of kind of total right? It’s the Buddha smile.

I think I need to stop right here because there are so many words and words. Don’t do it justice to this experience. 

Amanda: Oh, wow. Yes. You know, it’s interesting. So many things just came up as you were speaking. I was remembering one time I asked my daughters what they think the point of life is. Like, why are [00:39:00] we here?

I’m sure you could probably guess their, because you know them, you could probably guess their responses. But my oldest daughter’s reason was to, uh, express yourself to learn and grow to, and to express who you are. And my youngest daughters was easy to have fun. 

Natasha: Yes, 

Amanda: of course. But what I was thinking when you were speaking and, and you kind of brought it up in the, you know, when we first started this last part, is that there’s probably lots of reasons and if you come back to this idea of unconditional love, then perhaps loving your reason and loving your purpose and loving you, your why is part of this is part of experiencing unconditional love.

You don’t need to wanna be here for any [00:40:00] other reason than the reason why you’re here. Mm-hmm. And that’s part of loving yourself unconditionally, which would then lighten your experience. I, as you were speaking about the dense emotions and I, I kept thinking, oh, the hooks, the hooks. I mean, we, we always talk about the hooks, but now there’s a whole nother like, visual of like, not just hooking another person, but literally like a hook that holds us in this dimension.

It’s like this weight on our heels. The weight Exactly. Or on our ankles that keeps us here. And it just gives a whole nother reason why working through some of these things. I mean, it, whose work was it? Um, it’s the book Power Versus Force by Steven. Mm. Can’t think of the last name right now. Hawkins.

Hawkins? Yes. And they measured the emotions, like they measured the vibration of the emotions. And the one that is the lowest [00:41:00] densest, thickest vibration 

Natasha: is shame. Mm. Interesting. 

Amanda: And then guilt. And then, you know, it goes up and it’s, and, and then there’s like neutral and then it goes into the more light, you know?

Mm-hmm. What we experience as positive emotions and they, they feel good, right? Mm-hmm. And if you think of all the things that we end up feeling shameful about, or guilty about, or, you know, and how much that just hooks us and mm-hmm. And, and makes it difficult to experience those higher dimensions. Mm-hmm.

The other thing that I was thinking about is how there, there’s people that say like, heaven is a state of mind. Like heaven is a state of consciousness. And what. Christ, what Jesus was talking about is a consciousness of mm-hmm. Unconditional love and that that is the gate mm-hmm. To heaven. Mm-hmm.

And, and with this lens that, with this like overlay that [00:42:00] you’ve just helped us understand around, you know, the mechanism of Saturn creating this third dimensional reality, creating this perception of time and space and this idea of limitations or this sense of limitations. It, it is, they’re all saying this, they’re all saying that love and unconditional love.

It, it is the way out of that, of that what feels like a prison or a cage, 

Natasha: and that that state cannot be forced. 

Amanda: Right. Cannot be forced, cannot be shamed into, cannot be guilted into, cannot be should into none of those things. Uh, but that it literally is the, the way to quote unquote heaven. You know, it is the path to quote unquote heaven.

Mm-hmm. And it, it’s all, it’s all amazing to just, it sounds so simple, you know, it’s just like, oh, well, karma and the [00:43:00] love cause and effect, and all we need to do is have a life hard and all we need to do is love each other. Uh, it, it’s just, I don’t know where I’m going with that, but it’s, it’s just interesting to, kind of see how it all comes together.

And really, they’re all basically saying the same thing. Mm-hmm. Like Astrology’s pointing us there, the religions well mm-hmm. The, the seed. The seed of most of the religions 

Natasha: Yes. There 

Amanda: before they get overlaid with all the, the human Yeah. With all of like shame and guilt and all those things that actually do the opposite of get us into heaven.

Natasha: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s, that has been a. SP game, uh, 

Astrology, Generations & Patterns of Karma

Natasha: now that you mentioned astrology. As I said in the beginning, a lot of my contemplations have also been a result of astrological practice because dealing with the charts, uh, [00:44:00] reveals also a lot of those patterns and how they keep perpetuating your lifetimes.

And so once in the while as an astrologer, I get a, a treat. It’s truly a treat for me as an astrologer, probably for many other astrologers. When you get get three generations,

you get the mother, children, grandmother, let’s say grandfather. For example, and so through this kind of three generations charts, you can see the the patterns returning within the family tree reappearing. Each generation, like I had a family with a client, let’s say Moon, Pluto Square, uh, I think it was Moon, Pluto, both children has moon, Pluto, uh, [00:45:00] aspect, position.

I think moon, whatever, conjunction the mother or the grandmother. We went into gr uh, grandmother. She has Moon Pluto. One of the children has a fiance. Who is either a Scorpio or has some crazy plutonian uh, uh, aspects. And so here, when you, when you see at this, uh, spectrum, you understand how that same vibrational imprint tips being keeps coming back, carried, carried by D n a LICs and expressed through astrological signature as if D n a LICs itself has some kind of conversation with the solar system so that they [00:46:00] find a match.

And it seems to be, uh, yeah, it seems to be that it’s part of the generational or ancestral, processes where DNA is passing on the, information down the line. But why did, did I use this example is to sh to, to show how, when I talk about the loop, this is what it exemplifies. It’s like the, the, the magnetic vibrational signature that keeps coming back, almost like matching itself over and over again.

And even meeting partners that are reflecting that. And then those two will have children who will carry on a very [00:47:00] dramatic emotional stories. You know, so in cases like that, I do not necessarily see, or this is lessons to learn, this is how the soul evolves. That some would say, this is evolution through this repeating patterns.

Or there is a growth, or there is unfinished business. We use all these words, you know, especially in these new age terminologies, you know, unfinished business, karmic, whatever lessons, uh, you know, but oftentimes it doesn’t really feel that way. You know, it, it feels like a mechanism that just keeps repeating itself automatically.

And then the question is, if it’s not for evolution, why is it happening? And that what we were talking about, it’s, it’s, it’s almost like a, auto, uh, process [00:48:00] that happens by the, uh, you know, law of, uh, correspondences. You know, you live with this, you come back to this, you live with this, you come back to It doesn’t sound like a lot of fun. But more than often we work on issues. And astrology will look at the challenges. You know, yes, we are having fun, but there is also work that we’re doing here. And, um, when it comes to working with those inherited or um, perpetuating, mechanisms or signatures, it feels like there’s something else that needs to happen.

You know, then an ongoing, ongoing dragging of the story. [00:49:00] And that’s when, again, but as ancients told us, the work, the inner work, the consciousness work, the spiritual practice, the uh, uh, whatever each person prefers, Um, the inquiry, the inner inquiry, the healing, of course, the understanding of those patterns, embracing of them, uh, having a communication, you know, and then finding the ways to, uh, transmute, uh, that energy or to give it a different form.

You can’t really unlock your, in this case, let’s say Moon Pluto, but you can transmute it into cr very creative, powerful, uh, [00:50:00] evolutionary kind of, dynamic.

Amanda: It’s making me think that the emphasis on forgiveness is also. Oh yes. A huge piece of it because yes, forgiveness unhooks from un hooks, the story unhooks from that energy. Um, it seems also like consciously doing what we can to break patterns that we, we see. Oh, wow. That pattern. Oh wow. I seem to keep, I seem to keep creating this situation over and over.

Yes. Just giving insights into whatever that, that wheel like mechanism that we’re stuck in. Yes, yes, yes. And it can feel like that, you know, when you, when you choose a different response to say Yes, an argument that you’ve had a hundred times and you decide, okay, I’m gonna do something different this time.

Exactly, yes. It does have that feeling of like exiting the roundabout and going, oh, okay. Like now I’m in a different territory. There’s like something new happening here. Yes, [00:51:00] yes. I’m wondering what. Insights the chart gives us. 

Identifying Karmic Patterns in the Natal Chart

Amanda: So each one of us has our own astrological design, our own astrological makeup.

What, what insights does the chart give us into our own karmic patterns? Can we see via understanding the chart? Oh, yeah. Oh yeah. And what would be some examples of where to look or how to see that? 

Natasha: To me, the, the chart is that vibrational signature that we, as a consciousness unit carry with us. To me, the chart is that code, that whole, all the accumulated, forms that we have, you know, that we have gathered and had experience with that.

To me, it’s like, uh, yeah, it’s, it’s the code that we entered with. And the chart is also, also reveals [00:52:00] because of that code or, or that existing vibrational signature, which reflects the state of consciousness that you come with. It reveals what you expect from reality because what you expect from reality, given your chart will be your manifestation in 3d.

And based on that expectation, you will pull into your life the circumstances starting from Mama and Papa, right where the child is born, let’s say with Sun Moon Square. So the child expects. The friction between mother and father, it’s, it’s before mother and father are even divorced. The child already is ready for that, right?

For example. Or you have, uh, you know, whatever venous sad [00:53:00] going, you know, you expect certain, you know, sorrow or disillusionment or whatever issues, uh, around that aspect. The child chart also reveal, and, and, and together with expectation, it reveals the perception of reality. The filter with which we come to pull out what we need to, uh, think is actually true out of magnitude of versions.

Of possible, uh, realities and the perception of reality defines, your path.

So when you are asking about specific places in the chart or specific signatures, it is really [00:54:00] hard for me to pinpoint any one of the aspects within the chart to say, like, pay attention to this more than anything else. Because as I mentioned, it works as a symbiotic system. It’s a synthesis. It’s like it’s a fusion that only in its wholeness releases that.

That sound that you are.

However, because we’re talking about Saturn, again, we started with sand. The Saturn has that role to keep it, keep the kids together, you know, it has that role of administrative kind of on the terrain to make sure that this, reality keeps manifesting itself, you know, because of its crystallizing, [00:55:00] uh, nature.

Now, the moon, I mentioned this example with a family where everybody has this moon Pluto, right? Including the fiances and wives and. Probably the children to come. Uh, the moon seems to be also involved in the, in the generation of the those, deep kind of dance that we launch into this realm. The moon and Saturn that duo, you know, they can’t, they feel, and I can’t talk much about it because it’s an ongoing contemplation, but, uh, that what feels to me, uh, the, um, culpable some of the culpable ones behind the, you know, the moon, of course, the lunar nodes or the nodes that moon is weaving around the ecliptic, which is, you know, again, the moon and sad, and they seem to be kind of [00:56:00] coworking here to, uh, To, to keep the rotation happening.

So the 

Amanda: whole chart is, is describing the karmic signature, so to speak. Like, it’s, it’s, it’s basically the, the energetic signature of the perception of reality. The expectations of reality, the, the different things you’re gonna attract into your reality. Yes. So it’s, it’s almost, it’s describing the pattern.

Yes. And then there’s certain mechanisms, there’s certain planetary mechanisms that seem to sort of create that membrane or keep it all intact. And you’re, it seems 

Natasha: to be, yeah, it, there seems to be the, like the, the, the key actors or, technicians or the, uh, broadcasting kind of, uh, stations that have a certain bandwidth.

With, you know, like, you know, to me sand has this, this [00:57:00] really dense bandwidth and it is kind of like boo. It really, really operates solidly on this plane, and so does the moon. So does every planetary body, of course. Uh, but I would, you know, yeah, I would stop here because it’s, as I said, it’s an ongoing contemplation and, uh, maybe something will come out of it and we’ll have another episode around that.

Amanda: I would love that. Wow. Natasha, we’ve been on another journey. I don’t know about all of you, but I, I am, uh, again, and it’ll probably go away after we’re done recording. I’ll probably just, just, I, I, I don’t know how much I’ll be able to retain, but just this understanding of the patterns of the, the karmic, you know, Imprint that we create as we go through life.

And, and this idea of the, you know, living light as a feather, again, I think, I think it’s kind of like, well, geez, [00:58:00] do we just lock ourselves away in our room and not make any imprints on the planet? It’s like, well that’s, that’s, 

Natasha: that’s actually, uh, one of the methods in Eastern traditions. They just decided, okay, we’re done with it.

We we’re not even gonna engage. Mm. I I had a good friend of mine who, lived many, many years in ashram, and then he came out of it and asked me, why would you build more karma?

So in their philosophy, whatever he was, uh, adept to, you know, the, the, the, the message was not to engage in order not to tie, weave more ties. In order not to establish more cords that will unavoidably yank you back here. So that’s one way. You know, withdrawal, non-engagement that Buddha would call [00:59:00] non-attachment.

 And that’s one way, but it doesn’t look like here in the west. We are following that path because we do want to engage. We, we are creative, we are participant. So the question is how do we participate? That’s the quality where we are responsible for, what we do. 

Working With Mindset Around Karma

Amanda: It, it reminds me of that, uh, butterfly effect.

You know, that the butterflies. Wing flapping creates a ripple effect. Absolutely. So, so even if we tried not to, I mean, I, it’s, it’s my, my illusion that even if we tried not to have any sort of like, influence on, on reality that just by being here, we are just by being, are like just by, just by thinking, just by being we are.

So we may as well take responsibility for it [01:00:00] and do our best with it versus try to avoid it because I just, I don’t know, but I, but I’ve, I also haven’t been as exposed to that way of thinking or believing. So, 

Natasha: um, and that’s the way to work with fear of karma. Mm. The question that you asked me before, why do so many people, why are so many people afraid?

 Well, being afraid of karma is the same as being afraid of yourself in reality. I mean, if we zoom out of, uh, one single incarnation, right? So the fear comes from un unknown, not knowing what the heck could have we could have done. And it’s gonna come running as what I’m going. So the fear is really also to be transmuted.

Instead of fear takes that satur word, [01:01:00] responsibility, for all everything that you release and, and, and, and everything you vibrate out and emanate with your presence here. And it starts with us. It ends with us. And that’s why the, the practice is so important. 

Amanda: Amazing. Wow, Natasha, this has been so enlightening and, um, expansive and perception altering.

 And again, it’s, I’m left with a very similar feeling that I had last time, which I told you I felt even more in love with Saturn than I did before. And I feel that way about this. It, it’s like being, being in love with the, the mechanism by which it’s all working. And again, instead of how do I get out of it, how do I, how do I escape it?

It’s like, okay, we’re given this opportunity to live it to. [01:02:00] Understand ourselves better to take responsibility for our lives and the impact that we have, but not out of like, some punishment, you know, not out of some, like, you were bad, so you need to stay here and do this until you learn your lesson. It’s like, I don’t know.

There’s just, there is that, um, sense of loving the responsibility. Mm. Like yeah, we do, we do have an opportunity to, and, and I’ve heard even with like addiction and things that, um, I’ve, I’ve read this, I don’t know if it’s true, but that this is the only, this is like maybe the only or the best place to actually move beyond addiction.

That we actually can’t do it when we’re not informed that we need to take form and, and incarnate and be in this dense reality in order to unhook us from that pattern. In particular. It’s probably true about all the patterns, but I don’t know. Um, but that. You know, it is an opportunity to sort [01:03:00] of unhook from some of these things that have probably been keeping us stuck for a very, very 

Natasha: long time.

So maybe, yeah. Cause everything that happens here simultaneously resonates and reverberates in all of the dimensions. Mm. It’s not like we come here into this capsule and we’re completely separate, hiding here from the rest of the complexity of this universe, it all one system, it one organism. So that gives us even more kind of inspiration and certain kind of a fund responsibility that everything we, uh, that we, we, Create here in forms, back and forth, the light forms and perhaps our versions in versions of our consciousness and other planes.

So it’s way even beyond that, this particular incarnation or lifetime. I 

Amanda: [01:04:00] just had an image, and this is a very linear image, but you know, as we expand our consciousness, it’s like, okay, here’s the third dimension. So we kind of like hit our head against the, the limitations of that dimension until we bust through and then we maybe have an, an opportunity to have a.

Fourth or fifth or sixth, you know, people talk about all the different dimensional levels. So yes, maybe it’s, you know, you kind of hit your head against the ceiling here and then the ceiling breaks open and then you’re able to have a higher level of perception and that you’re, as your perception continues to grow, that you get to have these experiences of these other dimensional realities.

Right. Or perceptions. 

Natasha: Yeah, yeah, 

Amanda: yeah. 


Amanda: Well it’s all very mysterious and very interesting and I could talk about it with you forever and I’m sure we will. I just thank you for being willing to come here and share your perspective. It is a very [01:05:00] beautiful perspective. I learn so much every time we have the opportunity to connect this way and, um, I know that our community does as well, Natasha.

so much for being here. Again, 

Natasha: thank you so much for having me. This is beautiful. This is truly, truly, um, and 

Amanda: reaching. Yes. Oh, and thanks to all of you for being here on this wild ride with us for, for journeying into the peaks and the valleys. And, and I’d love to hear your perception, you know, how do you see all these things and what’s your experience of reality?

I think that we learn so much by sharing with each other. The first thing we learn is like, wow, there’s a lot of different ways to see things. There’s a lot of different ways to experience the world. And my way isn’t the o only way. And I know any of you interested in astrology and exploring astrology, you already, you already know that.

Like, that’s actually one of the first things. It’s There’s not just one design. There’s not just way to view reality. And that’s exciting in and of itself because then we can have that playful curiosity [01:06:00] with each other and with the universe itself. So, Thank you for being here in this exploration with us.

Thank you for being a part of our community. Thank you as always for making astrology a part of your life. If you are interested in connecting with Natasha for a reading, she is available on our Astrologer Connect platform. You can go to 

Amanda: astrology and scroll down. Look for Natasha’s little beautiful face in her little Saturn box.

Reach out and see when she has availability for a reading, and have her take a look into your karmic pattern and your holistic design and give you some insights into what that might mean about what you’re here to learn and experience. So that is available to you and um, it’s just been great to connect with you.

Also, thank you for being here and we will connect with you on Take care everybody.

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