What if Mercury is far more than the trickster – or the planet we blame when everything goes wrong? In this fascinating conversation, Amanda sits down with astrologer and author Gary Caton to explore the six faces and phases of Mercury, revealing how this ancient archetype can illuminate the way we think, communicate, grow, and evolve throughout our lives. 

Gary also shares a rare window for working intentionally with Jupiter, the astrological magic of planetary timing, and why today’s outer-planet cycles may be planting the seeds for an entirely new chapter ahead. 

Ready to explore Mercury more deeply? Gary’s new book is available for pre-order now – get your copy directly through his website at http://www.dreamastrologer.com/links/

 

🎬 IN THIS EPISODE, YOU’LL HEAR:

• 00:00 — Mercury Beyond Retrograde: The 6 Faces & Phases You Need to Know
• 11:29 — The Hidden Mythology of Mercury: From Trickster to Sage
• 23:34 — Your Mercury Phase: How the Archetype Evolves Throughout Your Life
• 36:56 — Jupiter in Leo: A Rare Window for Victory, Growth & Astrological Magic
• 48:23 — The Barbault Basket: Are We Entering a New Era of Expansion?

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LINKS FROM THE EPISODE

• Grab our FREE Eclipses Guide for each of the 12 signs: https://astrologyhub.com/eclipses
• Grab a signed copy of Gary’s upcoming book: http://www.dreamastrologer.com/links/
• Grab a copy of Gary’s book directly from the publisher: https://rubedo.press/hermetica-triptycha-ii
• Study with Gary: https://portal.astrologyhub.com/product-category/teachers/gary-caton/

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ABOUT THE SPEAKER:

Gary P. Caton is a trans-disciplinary Hermetic practitioner integrating diverse traditions, art forms and practices gathered over a full Saturn cycle, after being initiated an astrologer by a magnificent Dream in 1993. Gary has published in many prominent journals and magazines since 2002, and is author of the Hermetica Triptycha book series on Mercury. Gary is also an accomplished counselor, teacher, podcaster, and photographer.

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“Once we understand the natural evolution of the archetypes… we can intentionally invoke that process of growth.” — Gary Caton

Transcript

The Importance of Mercury in Astrology

Amanda: So Gary has been writing about Mercury since 2010. It took him seven years to write his first book on Mercury, which is one of the most quoted books on Mercury that is out there—Hermetica Triptycha. He is now about to come out with another book on Mercury. So literally since 2010—so we're talking 16 years of writing about Mercury.

Gary, why? Why, what's driving you to share what you know and what you've learned about Mercury? Why is it so important? I know the labor of writing a book, so this must have captivated you on such a deep level that you have given this devotion to it and are now sharing it with the world. So tell us why.

Gary: The original impulse was, um, that I just instinctively felt like a severe flattening of—of what I knew to be an incredibly complex and, um, varied archetype, you know? Like, this really severe flattening of, like, when Mercury's direct, everything's great, and when it's retrograde, run for the hills. Like, really? Go—c—come on, can't we do better than that?

And, um, and so the first book was about t—kind of trying to address that first part of, of, like, “Hey, you know, it's not the end of the world that Mercury's retrograde, and we might even be able to turn it into something productive if we try to go deeper into what it actually is.”

And so, um, you know, I went through the first book—it's called The Mercury Elemental Year, because the retrogrades happen in a particular element each year. And so really understanding the elements, understanding, um, what's going on in the retrograde, and trying to reframe it as an opportunity for growth rather than a—an avoidant-type thing.

Um, and so it was, I just wanted to bring Mercury back from this, um, you know, sort of pop—this flattened pop, um, sort of pop culture, um, joke, you know? L—like, I saw people who weren't astrologers writing about Mercury retrogrades and repeating all of this really bad advice, and I was like, “We've gotta—somebody's gotta do better than that.”

Amanda: Mm-hmm. Mm.

Gary: And so, you know, be the change you wanna see, right?

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Um, and then even when we do get beyond that flattening, even within the astrological community, you know, most of the time you'll hear—you'll definitely hear people talk about Mercury as the trickster, you'll definitely hear him talked about as the messenger, and sometimes you'll hear him talked about as the psychopomp. But that's about it. And that's—that's a lot less flat than, than just, um, direct good, retrograde bad, for sure. Um, but there's a lot more than that also when you really dig into the mythology.

Um, there—there is another part of the, um, mythos that's about Mercury as protector, as a guardian. I call it the guardian phase, um, where he's literally protector of infants, for instance. And, um, this is kind of where I entered into the material for the second book because, um, like for instance, when I went… You know, I was born in this phase. This phase is when Mercury is behind the sun, and so there's this invisible journey of Mercury behind the sun, and it's as if he's carrying something precious through this dangerous place and, and making sure that it gets to the other side safely. You know, that's the image that I got for that.

And, um, that's the—that's the part of the Mercury cycle that I was born in. And it's really interesting to me because when I went back to school and got my counseling degree, it was for the purpose of making myself a better astrologer. Like, absolutely 100% needed to f—have a way to deal with the emotional stuff that was coming up in, when I was doing readings, and I was… And, you know, I was trying to become a better, more like a consulting—you know, to do consultations.

When I signed up for my internship to complete my degree, um, I had been back at school for, like, a year and I hadn't been working 'cause I really wanted to bust this out. And so my advisor was like, “Well, Gary, you're at the top of the class. You can have any internship you want.”

And I was like, “Well, I need one that pays.”

And she's like, “There's only one that pays.”

And I said, “Okay, that's the one for me.”

And she said, “Well, hang on a minute,” because it was actually in, uh, in lockup. It was in a, um—it was a predispositional juvenile detention facility. And, um, and so I said, “Okay, let's, you know, I—I… Let's do it.”

And I—and I want to say something briefly. Like, that scene that you see in the movies where they l—where when the door slams and there's a chill runs down every—that stuff is real.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: That stuff is real. I've—I've, I experienced that firsthand. Um, but I got to know the boys in there, and, and these are kids who were, you know, accused of crimes like even murder. You had everything from skateboarding on the street to triple homicide. Hmm. There was one guy who was in there for triple homicide, allegedly, right? This is a predispositional facility.

Um, but long story short, because I entered the field, uh, in, in, in the children's counseling end of it, all of my job opportunities just kind of naturally fo—so I became a—a children's counselor in group homes and, and, and in foster care, and I became, like, a—a case manager for… And I eventually ran an entire child services unit for, um, a county in North Carolina.

And so that—that mythology of… And that was my job, was to… And, and I really felt, and I… This is one of the things that I'm most proud of: no child was—had to be committed to an institution or, you know, like a psychiatric, you know, like commitment, like, involuntary, right? Um, no ch—I did not have to do that to any child while I was—

Amanda: Hmm…

Gary: —serving. N—and, and, and, um, you know, that was by design, man. I—I got to know them. I got to know their family. I got to know all of the people that they were involved with, whether that was juvenile justice or, or, um, you know, the courts or the schools or the community, whatever was going on.

Um, and, uh, and it was only later that I realized, “Wow, like that part of the mythology really—” you know, was—was my core experience as a counselor.

Um, and so there's the guardian, and then there's—there's, th—here's one that we forget: Mercury was the god who gave us astrology.

Amanda: Mm. Mm.

Gary: Now, what do you call that guy? I call him the philosopher, because he's giving us a—a—a divine art, a, um, you know, a, um… I call it an art. Some people call it a science, you know, but that—that's a nowadays… You know, back in the day, you know, Renaissance time, calling it a science wasn't an issue because science and art hadn't been driven apart, you know? But I call it an art, or I call it actually one of the three Hermetic arts now. But this idea that it is a kn—it's a s—knowledge system, you know. That's what philosophers do, you know. And so, and Mercury classically was the planet of philosophers, you know.

So there's the philosopher, and then there's just the sage. There's the—the wisdom that comes, you know. We talk about the trickster, we talk about the messenger, but what about the sage? What about those people who are just, like, really embodying walking through the world w—with wisdom, you know?

And so that kind of rounds out the whole, um, Mercurial archetype, I think, really nicely when we have six—six faces, F-A-C-E-S, faces of Mercury. And that kind of matches up really nicely with the six phases of Mercury, because you have morning star and evening star, right? And then you have invisible in the underworl—you know, invisible inferior conjunction, invisible superior conjunction. And then when you divide the morning star and evening star into two—like one where it's coming into the sky and one where it's going down—that gives you six.

And then I had to take up the task of—now imagine this—first I went through Astro-Databank to try to find examples of all these things. Because it's one thing to dream it up and to say, “Well, there must be this.” Like, it ma—all of that makes sense, right, in our minds. Sounds about right. But how do we know, like, that it works?

So I went back to Astro-Databank and, um, started perusing through all of the records. This is back when it was still on a, like a CD thing or whatever, and you could access it on your computer. And, um, and so—but if you think about it for a second, so there's 12 signs, 12 houses, so that's 144 combinations. You multiply that times six phases, that's 864 combinations. So—

Amanda: So you were looking at people's natal charts—

Gary: Yep.

Amanda: —and, and calculating the—the house, the sign, and also the phase, and seeing if it correl—if their life correlated with—

Gary: With—

Amanda: —the mythology of that, like, if Mercury the Sage or Mercury the Guardian or… okay. Wow.

Gary: Yep.

Amanda: Whoa. Yeah. Okay.

Gary: And that—that took me, like, a year just doing the research, and I have, like, three notebooks this thick filled with, with just that.

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: Yeah. That wasn't the hardest part. Doing the research and finding the examples w—took a while. It was fun. Um, but then the… I was not prepared for how hard it is to capture the essence of someone's life in one paragraph. It's very difficult. Because I just wanted to say, and, and, and, like, you know? Like, any given person to me is like a miracle, especially people that are worthy of being celebrity examples. Like, they usually have incredible lives. How do you put that in one paragraph? It's difficult. You—

Amanda: You cannot, right? You—

Gary: You really can't, yeah. So you just have to, um, really kind of focus and, and, and concentrate on what particular aspect of the Mercurial mythos that they're channeling and just kind of, um… You know, there were some times where I had to put some end, you know, notes in there, like, that's, um, to kind of continue the conversation. But yeah, that—that took a whole another year. So all last year I was busy writing that part. Um, and—

The Fascinating Thing About Writing a Book About Mercury

Gary: —the really interesting thing with this particular book, why it took so long is that, um, you know that John Lennon saying of, like, um, “Life is what happens when you're busy making other plans”? You ever hear that one? Yeah. So life happened.

I mean, COVID happened. Different things ha—several things happened to me along the way, and I would get pulled away from the writing. And, um, that's always—it's, I mean, it's a little traumatic for a writer because when you're in it, you're—you're like a channel o—of this information, and when you step out of that stream, y—you're not the same person when you go back in. And it—and you don't know if you're gonna lose the thread. You don't know.

I mean, I've done that. I've—I've lost a couple books that I never completed because when I got back to it, it just—I couldn't pick it up.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: But fortunately, the experience this time was the other way around. When I came back and I kind of reviewed everything and I got back into the flow of writing it, I real—I s—I found things coming out of me that I wouldn't have said before—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —without the—the break. And I was like, “Wow, this is happening this way for a reason. Okay, I surrender.” Like, um, one of them in particular was really profound.

I—I got, um, invited to do like a—a review of, um, John Michael Greer, who ended up doing the foreword for this book. Um, and, um—but I did a thing on his book about Pluto, and he was talking about, you know, the whole quote-unquote “demotion of Pluto from a planet” and—and whatnot. And he was kind of looking at that from, uh… He—he kind of l—looked at, like, so how do we even know what a planet's about and discovery charts.

And—and he kind of asked a question I never heard an astrologer ask before: “What about the discovery of Mercury and the other visible planets? Like, what about that?”

Well, it just so happens that that was the beginning of civilization as we know it, and the beginning of, you know, that's—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —that goes all the way back to the beginning. So yeah, what about that? Like—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —that's kind of the seed of not just astrology, but it's the seed of civilization really, because that, um… And here's something wild also: the names for the planets in Babylonian are from some other language of—that we don't even know what it is.

Amanda: What?

Gary: Yeah. They're not Babylonian names. They're some other language, and we—there's no evidence of this language anywhere else except in the names of the—the names the Babylonians used for the planets.

So from its beginning, from its inception, astrology has been what's called syncretic. That is, you know, it's been built with parts and pieces taken from other things and put them together into this new thing. And that's been the story of astrology the whole way.

Um, and so that's, um, and that's partly what I'm doing here. Like, I'm taking, like, my—my… In the first book, I took my knowledge of psychology and—and in particular, developmental psychology, and understanding the needs that people have at different stages in their life, and kind of used the Mercury—the, the Mercury returns to the elements as, like, signposts along this sort of evolutionary journey of—of development.

Um, and this time I'm doing kind of the same thing of, um, looking at the development of the Mercurial mythos itself as a development of—of the full range of character of what Hermes is.

You know, like, he starts out as this trickster who steals his brother's cattle on the first day of his life, right? Everybody knows that part of it. Um, and what does he do? He walks the cattle backwards to avoid detection. Well, it just so happens that when Mercury appears in the sky in the east, the fir—uh, the first—for the first part of the visible cycle, it's still retrograde. So Mercury's walking backwards in the sky, and in the myth, the—the trickster's taking the cattle backwards. I mean, I think that's pretty wild, you know?

And then what's really interesting is that unlike his father, Zeus, and his father before him, Kronos, who both fought bloody wars to gain power, Mercury basically just says, um, “I'm gonna take these cows. I'm gonna do a magical ritual and divide up the meat, and I'm gonna deal myself in. I'm gonna divide the meat up according to the gods that are on Olympus right now, and I'm gonna add one for me. And I, and, and, and then, um, when I get up to Olympus, I'm gonna say, ‘Hey, I'm just here to serve. I'm not here to fight. I just wanna serve.'”

It's a radical difference in approach, you know? And so that's how he becomes the messenger. So the trickster becomes the messenger by, through, through service, through being willing to serve, you know?

And so there's a lot of really interesting… And so, and that, to me, like, um, represents, like the—the difference between sort of the—the initial, um, burst of the star into the morning sky. Like, there's this radical sort of backwards-moving, um, thing that sort of, um, wants to change the world order around to make room for something new.

Versus after Mercury rises as Morning Star and then it begins to descend again, there's, like, this submission to saying, “Hey, o—okay, if you'll include me, I'll, I'll, I'll hang back and, and just be the messenger and be, you know, be willing to serve.”

And, um, and then eventually he becomes the guardian. And eventually from the guardian, he becomes the philosopher. And—and from the philosopher, the sage. And from the sage into the psychopomp, the guide, back into the… And, and then the whole thing starts over, you know?

And so I really just wanted to—to answer your question finally—I just wanted to really flesh out, fully flesh out and fully explore the, the, the true complexity and the true wonderful vari—variety of, um, manifestations that Hermes has in the mythos and, and, and show how we can see that also in the astronomy.

Amanda: It's so fa—it's fascinating. And I, I, I love how you use the term flattened.

Gary: Mm.

Amanda: Like, we flattened the archetype. And haven't we really done that with all the archetypes on so many levels? Yeah. And to have somebody put their hand up and say, “Look, I'll go and I'll explore the multitudes of what this actually is.”

Because as we realize these in the multitudes of the archetypes, we also unlock these different aspects of ourselves. Like, no one needs to be stuck as the trickster or stuck as the messenger. There is an evolution within the archetypes, and by recognizing them in the planets themselves, we can start to evoke these things from ourselves and from each other, too, you know—not—not getting any—anyone else flattened or stuck—

Gary: Exactly.

Amanda: —in one archetype. Right?

Gary: Yes.

Amanda: Yes.

Mercury in Gary Caton's Chart

(Break / Announcement)

Amanda: Hey friends. As you probably already know, we are still in the eclipse window right now. If you want some guidance on how to work with this—these particular eclipses based on where they're falling in your chart—you can check out the free guide that we created for you. It's at astrologyhub.com/eclipses. It's yours to download right now. You can also find that link in the show notes. And now, back to the episode.

Amanda: Is Mercury particularly pronounced in your chart? I mean, why—again, why Mercury—

Gary: Hmm. Yeah…

Amanda: —and not Pluto or not Saturn or any of the other archetypes?

Gary: Yeah. Mercury is near the 0° Aries point in my chart, so, um, there's that. And he's also, um, exactly 15 degrees from the sun, so he's at that point where he's going from being visible to invisible.

So that—that is a term that Robert Schmidt called phasis, means appearing, or in this case, disappearing. Um, and so that—that is kind of like—he always said you should interpret a planet that's appearing or disappearing with an exclamation point next to it.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Because it—

Amanda: How do people find out what it is in their chart?

Gary: Well, I created a 125-year ephemeris of these phases for people to e—easily look it up. But, um, i—essentially, if it's more than 15 degrees from the sun, it's visible.

First of all, it has to be more than 15 degrees because Mercury is n—is one of the less bright of the planets. It's still brighter than most stars, but because it's usually seen lower along the horizon and it's not super bright, it has to be 15 degrees from the sun to be visible.

Um, and then, excuse me, if it's earlier in the zodiac than the sun, it will be visible in—before the sunrise as a Morning Star planet.

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Gary: If it's later in the zodiac than, uh, than the sun, it'll be visible in the, um, evening after sunset. So that's sort of like, you know, that gives you some idea.

Um, and then there's these turning points that are kind of subtle, where if you track every day, like the Babylonians did, every day, “Okay, I'm going up my ziggurat, and I'm gonna… There's Mercury. And oh, the—oh, it just appeared, and oh, today it's a little higher, and to—and a little higher, and a little…”

Eventually, it kind of hovers in the sky, and then it—and as I said, like in the morning sky, it comes up, and then it begins to descend. And so this point of hovering, we call maximum elongation, because it's the maximum distance that Mercury makes from the sun results in this hovering in the sky.

And these are points that you typically don't find in astrological, mm, um, data compilations, unfortunately. Um, I had to—and so I had to create an ephemeris for them in the first book, and I—and I did that again here.

Um, so from—from the first appearance as Morning Star up until the maximum elongation, we're t—looking at the trickster. And then as Mercury begins to descend, the descending is like a—an acceptance or a relaxing or, or a coming back, you know, down, right? And so there's like, so that's like the—the messenger who submits to a higher—the will of a higher, um, a higher will basically, and says, “Okay, I'll serve, uh, in, in, in relation to that.”

Um, and, and so yeah, like there's a lot… I talk about the astronomy actually in depth, but you don't have to get into that part. Like, I'm not recommending this, but if you wanna skip the chapters on the—on the astronomy at first and just dive into the ephemeris in the back, you can go right to what your phase is.

The Evolution of Mercury

Gary: But I really love that you got right away the evolution of this archetype and—and that it… Because, um, you know, the nature of the Mercury cycle being about 116 days, by secondary progression—which is a day equals a year—you know, an 80-year lifetime av—on average here in, here in the developed world anyways, most people are gonna experience most of that cycle. And so you're gonna go through not just the phase you were born in, but you're going to experience the natural evolution of that cycle throughout your life.

Um, and so yeah, that—that was kind of the other—the other point is—is to do exactly what you intuited: is to, um, show people, like, um, how they can… And imagine this, like for instance, when I decided to become a writer of Mercury, w—this is kind of funny because, um, I thought I was making a tincture that would help cure my writer's block so I could keep writing horoscopes and keep getting paid. And to, at some—and that, and it did work for that.

Um, in fact, it worked so well my editor could no longer understand what I was doing, and because they didn't understand what I was doing, they decided that they didn't wanna hire me back. So I had a hole in my schedule, which eventually got filled with writing a book of, on Mercury.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Um, but what I did is, you know, this phase that I was born in, I didn't do this consciously, but the next phase of Mercury was the one that I did the—the tincture under.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: So I was inviting the next phase of my evolution simply by, um, intentionally working with Mercury during that phase. And I realized, of course, it took you from what you were doing into the next part of the journey because you were literally doing that.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: And so that's another wonderful thing about this, is that once we understand the natural evolution of the archetypes, we can—we can not just un-flatten things and understand people and—and how they might be multifaceted and how they might be moving from one to another, but we can intentionally invoke that process—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —to, of growth. You know?

The Importance of Phases

Amanda: And so when you give readings, are you focusing on this in somebody's chart?

Gary: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Amanda: And how do you—how do you integrate? ‘Cause there's phases of all the planets, right?

Gary: Yes. Yes.

Amanda: So how do you integrate all of it? How do you decide which one gets more importance and is more important in the storyline of someo—someone's life at any given time?

Gary: That's a really great question, Amanda. I developed a system for myself early on where I chose to look at the three planets that are, um, that can be closer to the sun than Earth, and those three planets are Mercury, Venus, and Mars.

Because—because they, um, penetrate this inner sanctum of sun-Earth that we, you know, in—in Jewish mysticism they call the inner part of the temple the Holy of Holies, you know? That Holy of Holies, the only place in the universe that we know where life exists, right here—the only planets that can get in that inner space are those three.

And so because of that, I pay special attention to the phases of those three planets, because they represent to me, like, some core part of our being. I mean, you know, if you think about it, like, language and the way we think and the way we speak, you know, Mercury. Um, what we value, Venus. What we love, you know, and what—and, and what we want to, um, you know, accomplish, Mars. You know, those…

Usually you're gonna cover those three things in a reading. And so understanding where those planets are in their evolution through these phases becomes really… I'll give you an example. One of my partners in the Sky Astrology Conference, um—well, Adam Gainsburg wrote a book on the phases of Venus. I think you're aware of that. And, um, he also has a lot of material on the phases of Mars. He never did that book yet. I keep, “When are you gonna do the Mars book?” But so, Adam, if you're out there, when are you gonna do the Mars book?

But, um, one of my other partners, Andrea Michelle, she, um—she was born in, like, uh, one of the—the early part of the Mars cycle. And so there, she—like, she has this thing where she's like, she's like, “Gary, I wanna go to Africa and study tracking with the—with the Bushmen.”

You know, and I'm like, “Wow, Andrea, that sounds intense. Like, let me know if you go, and may—if I can, I'll—I'll join you,” you know.

And then she ended up, um, doing this thing with horses where she's like, you know, tracking the horse. She was out there with a… She hired a tracker to track the wild horses, and now she's doing these workshops of bringing people in touch with the horses.

And so there's this kind of, um, m—Adam calls it the exploration phase of Mars, where somebody's just exploring what it is to be Mars-like. You know, and it's… I don't—I, I don't know exactly why, but my Mars is in the other side of the cycle. It's like way at the end of the cycle, so it's this battle-hardened old soldier that's like, you know, been through all the battles and can ki—you know, kind of, you know, has some wisdom from that.

And I think maybe that's why, like, I think women pick up on that and they go, “Hey, if I want to be more Mars, I could talk to this guy 'cause he—he—he seems to know about it.”

And so time after—time after time when I'm going through my prep to—before I do the chart, oh, here's another woman with exploration Mars, and another, and another, and another. And it's like, oh my God, they just keep showing up for some reason. And it's like, okay, well, I know what this is about. Like, clearly that's something to talk to them about, because I see it as a theme in my practice of these women showing up with this, uh, you know, early Mars cycle. So that's one way that you can know which one to talk about.

Like, I made a conscious choice to focus on these three, and then of those three, there's different ways that it can show up. Um, there's another calculation that you can do. It's called the Almuten of the figure, which is a very complicated thing. It comes from the, um, Latin al-mubtazz, which means “the victor,” but it's a… There's a—there's a lot of calculations involving the ascendant, the sun, and the moon, and the part of fortune, and the prenatal lunation, and you look at the planet that rules those things, the planets that rule those things. And the one that rules the most of those things is kind of like the—the victor or the winner.

What it symbolizes is where your guardian angel comes from. So as we're coming in from the stars, we come through the planets, and somewhere along the way we pick up a guardian angel. Which one of the planets we pick up our guardian angel i—is supposed to be according to this almuten of the figure. Of course, Mercury is my almuten.

And, and, and so that's another reason I think why, you know, because w—what better book are you gonna write than one for your guardian angel planet? You know what I'm saying? Wow. And so—

Amanda: First of all, I've never heard of this almuten thing.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: I don't know what almuten of the figure… It's like a—that's interesting.

Gary: It's like a medieval or Renaissance astrology. It's—it's more of a, like, classical astrology. Um—

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: And it—I mean, and I do it by hand, Amanda, so it takes me, like, 10 or 15 minutes to do all this.

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: But I love it. So yeah, and so if I see that, you know, Venus, uh, is the almuten of the figure, I'm gonna talk about their Venus phase—

Amanda: Ah…

Gary: —for sure. You see what I'm saying?

Amanda: Wow. Right. Because that's their guardian angel, and so that's gonna be really vital to keep them on their path and stuff.

Gary: Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: And what do you see understanding Mercury phases… like, what—what does it do for people? What does it—how does it help them on their path?

Gary: Yes. So as I said a little while ago, the beginning of astrology and the beginning of civilization was this decision by the Babylonians to track these five wandering stars and to begin to under—what's going on? Like, there's these stars that kind of are the same place all diff—you know, each season, a new one arise. But there's these other ones that kind of go back and forth. What are they doing? What is going on there?

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: That desire to understand that was the fundamental impulse—that was the seed moment of astrology and the seed moment of civilization. So by tracking the visible appearances and disappearances of a planet, we're going back to the beginning, to the seed moment.

And when we do that, there's a vital—there's a vital, um, seed energy. There's a vital cat—catalyst-type energy that—that renews us because we're going back to our origins. It's kind of like when you go back home and you remember who you are. You know, you remember what your parents taught you and—and the fundamental values that make you who you—who you are, you know.

Um, and so that's what it brings. It brings a vitality. It brings a, um, an, uh, like an origin-kind of energy that, um… And the other thing, if you just think about it in terms of mechanics, um, so the—the—the sign placement of—of a planet will tell us basically something about how the planet does, you know. Mercury's in Leo right now, so it's gonna do things in a fiery, maybe a little dramatic fashion, right?

The house placement, um, will tell us, you know, where in the life experience to look for that particular thing. But what the phase will tell us is, um, kind of like what level or what kind of consciousness is brought.

So are we dealing with a Mercurial figure who is like, um, you know, first day on the job and, like, ready to change the world, and maybe is gonna g—do something a little radical 'cause they think they're, you know? Or are we dealing with the old veteran who's just gonna quietly show us around and, “By the way, you might wanna check out that since you're going over there.” Like, you know—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —the sage that's gonna really subtly… It's a radical difference of—of the—of… And it—it could be the same planet and the same sign, but a very different way, a consciousness—

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: —that they bring to that role, you know? Yes. So are we dealing with the trickster or the sage, or something in between, you know?

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: Um, yeah.

Amanda: Interesting. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And then the progressed phase would help you potentially lean into the next, whatever—

Gary: Your growth. Another level of that archetype. Yeah. Yeah. Next part of your cycle and the next part of your, um, your—your evolution, you know, your growth. Yeah.

Amanda: Right.

Gary: Yeah, absolutely.

Amanda: Wow. Okay. Well, this is, like, totally out of left field, but I wanna ask you because—because I—I, I… We're bringing it back to something that you said on the forecast panel—

Gary: Mm.

Amanda: —at the beginning of the year. Oh, so we did our forecast panel—

Gary: Mm-hmm.

Amanda: —so we're gonna switch over from Mercury to Jupiter because—

Gary: Oh, yeah. Of course. Absolutely.

Amanda: —because you s—well, first of all, before we go there, where can people find your book, your newest book on Mercury?

Gary: So, yes. Rubedo Press, um, is, uh—

Amanda: How do you spell that?

Gary: R-U-B-E-D-O. Rubedo Press.

Amanda: Okay, we'll put—um, we'll put links in the show notes and everything to you guys.

Gary: Rubedo Press is the publisher. We've got the book available for presale right now. Um, if you want a signed copy, I'm gonna be at UAC signing books, and I've got a lecture on this particular topic. So you can come see the lecture and then attend the book signing.

If you're not gonna be at UAC, um, I'll have a, you know—like I said, the book is available for presale via Rubedo. And if you want a signed copy, I'm gonna put a link in there. So you'll have to purchase the book and—and shipping, 'cause I have to sign the book and then ship it to you. Mm-hmm. So it's a little bit more, but people can, if they want a signed copy, can get it that way on my website. Um—

Amanda: Nice. Nice.

Jupiter in Leo

Amanda: But let's talk… So wait. So in, at the forecast panel, you brought our attention to this period of time we're in right now in August. You brought our attention to Thursdays in August, and not only that, but sunrise on Thursdays in August as being a particularly magical moment for manifest—

Gary: And September. And September.

Amanda: Oh, good. It goes into Sep—

Gary: And September, yeah. From mid-August through September, yeah.

Amanda: —you bring in these, um, I mean, elections, or, like, you know, magical, potent moments to really work with the energy of the universe. Yeah. And this was one that you—this election—drew our attention to, so let's talk about it again. Yes, yes. Yeah. Tell us what—what's happening.

Gary: Yeah, so this goes back to the decans, or the deacons, as I like to call them.

Amanda: You say decan, I say deacon.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: Yes.

Gary: Um, so these are 10-degree segments of the signs, right? So there's three decans i—per sign, and th—so there's 36 decans in the—in the zodiac. And, um, they each have a rulership, um, and this is governed by the Chaldean order, so this is actually the order on the Kabbalah, or the Tree of Life.

As I said, when you come in from the stars, the first… So if you're coming from the stars, what's the first planet you're gonna run into, visible planet?

Amanda: Oh, Saturn?

Gary: Yeah. Yeah.

Amanda: Yep. Okay.

Gary: And then Jupiter, and then Mars, and then… Now, in this order, the Sun is in the middle because the Sun, from a geocentric perspective, they were putting the Sun, like, between, uh, Jup—between Mars and Venus.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: And then Venus and Mercury and the Moon, Moon being the closest. So that's, like, in order of their speed through the zodiac, basically.

Um, so we track these rulerships that way, through the Chaldean order. And, um, when… So we start with zero, Aries is ruled by Mars. And then we go to the Sun is the middle decan, and the third decan is Venus, and then on and on.

And when we get to the middle decan of Leo, that's ruled by Jupiter. And because Jupiter's a 12-year cycle, it's not very often that we get Jupiter in his home decans, right? Because 36 divided by seven, each one gets about five decans through the zodiac. So Jupiter doesn't have a home decan in every sign, and so we're not—it's not every year that we get one of these Jupiter decans.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Um, and so I just thought that it would be… And—and this decan is associated with the tarot card that's the Six of Wands, so there's, like, this dude on a horse with a laurel wreath, and he's had some kind of victory.

Um, so it—it's a really positive card, and I felt like the world could use a little positivity. I think probably even more now than then. I was feeling the need for some then, and I think I feel it even more now.

And the other thing is, it—it lasts for a while, 'cause it's Jupiter, and it's kinda slow. Uh, slower than, you know, the others. You know, Mercury's in his decans for short periods of time often.

So yeah, so Jupiter between 10 degrees and 20 degrees of Leo kind of unlocks the powers of that decan as the ruler, and the powers of that decan are about victory, and, um, there's this kind of, um, um, nobility that comes, of course, with Leo. Um, but there's just kind of like, um, you know, o—overcoming the difficulties of something and, like, you know, getting over the—over the hump in—in your life, you know? It's like—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: And I—I'm… I mean, there's—that's always, uh, a really great… So there's, like, this evolutionary energy with that, you know, that you… Like, th—there's certain things that people struggle with for years and years and years, you know? And so if you know that the, uh, astrology is giving you this momentum to get over the hump with something, like, you know, that could be a really—that could be the thing that kind of it—it gets them to the next phase of their life, you know, by getting—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —past that, um, past that thing they're struggling with.

Amanda: So what do you recommend we do? I remember you said Thursdays because that's Jupiter's day. Yeah. And I know you said sunrise because that's Jupiter's time.

Gary: Yeah, so—yeah, so the planetary days are based on, you know, there's seven days of the week, and each—each day is, uh, goes with a planet. And then there's also planetary hours, and we covered this in one of our courses. Um, the planetary hours are divided. So the first day, uh, sorry, the first hour on the day of the planet belongs to that planet. So at sunrise, the first hour on Jupiter's day is Jupiter's hour.

Amanda: Oh, the day—

Gary: Yeah…

Amanda: —starts with sunrise?

Gary: The day starts with sunrise.

Amanda: Not midnight.

Gary: Exactly.

Amanda: Okay.

Gary: Mm-hmm. Yeah. And because that's like the breath of—the first breath of the day, if you will.

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Gary: And I mean, you know, if you go out—go out and—and enjoy a sunrise sometime, and you can feel it. You can—

Amanda: Feel the world—Gary, I've been doing that, I've been doing that. 5:00 AM, yes. That's great. With my love. We take our dogs, and it's, like, like a 20-minute drive to the beach, but we've been doing it. So it's—it means waking up at 4:00 AM. But being at the ocean at sunrise, I mean, being anywhere at sunrise, it is such—yeah. Dusk used to be my favorite time of day, and now I've replaced it with sunrise, 'cause—wow, wow.

Gary: They're both very powerful. Yeah.

Amanda: Yes. Yes.

Gary: Yeah, for sure. Um, so yeah, that—that energy of Jupiter is kind of doubled, because it's Jupiter's day and Jupiter's hour.

And in fact, in the Magical Grimoire from the n—you know, 9th century that's called Picatrix, m—there's very few instructions that they give for these decans, but there's really—there's only… Well, there's three. There's two that you want and one you don't want.

The first one that you want is you want the planet in the decan. You want the ruler in the decan. So we got that: mid-August through September, Jupiter's between 10 and 20 Leo.

Amanda: August 13th through September… Do you know the end date?

Gary: Well, it's actually into—just into October.

Amanda: Oh, wow. So all of September. Yeah. Okay, great. Yeah.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: And then a little bit into October.

Gary: Mm-hmm. And, um, so we've got that. And then the next thing it says is, if you can get it, having it on, uh, Jupiter—having it at sunrise on Jupiter's day is, like, a bonus, you know? Because it's kind of like, um, putting… It's—it's like kind of like the rule of three. You know how, you know, you have one thing, and then when it repeats, it's kind of like, “Oh, now I've got two of them.” And then when you get three, it kind of makes a—a pattern.

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Gary: So you've got Jupiter in the decan, Jupiter's day, and Jupiter hour, so you're kind of repeating that rule of three where you've got three—three Jupiter things now, you know?

Amanda: And what do you do? So if there's—if there's something in your life, you have some problem, some challenge, some issue, a pattern you'd like to overcome… Maybe there's—there's a place where you need to step into. Maybe you want to open up your heart more. Maybe you want more c—courage. Maybe—maybe you want more abundance. Like, whatever it is. Yeah. What do you do at sunrise on Thursdays?

Gary: There's a lot of things. Like, um, you could, for instance, um, do… Take that card out of your tarot deck, the Six of Wands, and just kind of meditate with it, you know? And, um, and, and/or use the other cards to tell you how to unlock the—the experience of this card.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Um, you could, for instance, go on a walk and look at the—the—the experience of the walk as like a vision quest.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Trust the walk to show you, like a dream, and then interpret the symbols that you find on the way as, like, a—a dream or something. Um, you could—you could—you could dedicate this hour to, you know, for what you've got, like six weeks there, of like a six-week journey of, like, journaling about what—what—why—why am I, um, you know, having this difficulty? What—what will it take for me to get over it? So—so you could do like a Jungian journaling project with it.

Um, you could create an altar to Jupiter, you know. Like, um, and you could, you know, put the Jupiter symbol on there, and then you could get like a stone—like citrine would be a good stone because it's yellow for Jupiter in Leo. Um, and you can get a Jupiter herb like sage or, um, chicory root or, um, juniper berries are good for Jupiter.

See, that you're cr—when you do that, you're creating what's called a chain of correspondences.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: So there's a mineral, there's a plant, there's usually an animal. You know, animal parts may or may not be y—what some people want to deal with. You could put like an antler on there though, for instance, like to, you know, for Jupiter.

And then y—when you put the symbol, you're creating what's called a chain of correspondences to kind of a ladder to, you know, uh, connect the consciousness of Jupiter, you know, into your life.

Amanda: Wow.

Gary: You could create an altar for—for Jupiter and just spend some time just being grateful, thanking Jupiter for the abundance you do have in your life, and, um—and just asking for assistance in—in overcoming whatever thing that you—you're seeking victory over. Um, that—that's a fair—fairly good menu of—

Amanda: That's a great menu. I mean, that chain of correspondences is—is really cool. It's—it's almost like you're layering things that vibrate at the frequency of the—the planet itself. So you're—you're just opening up the channel wider and wider. And ideally, the communication can flow even more clearly.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: It's really awesome. Okay, you guys. So—

Gary: Yeah. That's—that's magic. That's—that's the extension—

Amanda: That's magic…

Gary: Yep. That's the extension—

Amanda: That's magic…

Gary: —spell. Yep.

Amanda: Okay. So this is astrological magic. Pretty simple. Very, uh, n—obviously, you don't really need anything fancy in order to do it. But—

Gary: Don't need a lot of fancy stuff.

Amanda: No, right. And maybe just try it. Just see. Just play with it. Just be curious about it. Like, “Oh, this is kind of in—interesting. I wonder—”

Gary: Yeah…

Amanda: “—what would happen if I—if I, uh, really took an intention into this time period and saw what happened.”

Gary: Mm-hmm. That's it. And/or, like I said, doing a vision quest and just, like, with no intention and just seeing what the intention that you meet is. Yeah.

Amanda: I love that.

Gary: That's—I love that… That's ano—that's, like, the reverse way.

Gary's Take on the Barbault Basket

Amanda: Gary, is there anything else you wanna share with us? I know we're in, like, the midst of very intense astrology. There's a lot going on, uh, astrolog—you know, in the stars, but also, of course, corresponding here on Earth. Is there—

Gary: Yeah…

Amanda: —anything else you wanna draw our attention to in terms of guidance from the stars on how to actually navigate through these times?

Gary: Yeah. You know, um, there's been a lot of talk about the Barbault basket. I guess you may—maybe you've heard about that.

Amanda: Mm-hmm.

Gary: You know, well, right now we have all three outer planets that are harmoniously aligned, and that's pretty rare. You know, the last time that that happened was in the '40s. Um, and, um, you know, that—it didn't happen the same way back then. They never were in the same degree. Like, we literally had all of them in four degrees recently.

Amanda: Yeah.

Gary: And what's interesting to me is, like, as that aspect pattern opened up, as Saturn went through all of those three outer planets that had aligned, and as Saturn came around and began to go out away from them, the—the '50s and '60s were like a golden age of, uh, you know, middle-class expansion and economic expansion, and really wonderful.

You know, and that—that basically f—you know, we started talking about Mercury cycles, and maybe we'll finish talking about outer planet cycles. That idea very much fits with cycle theory that, um, you know, and—and really it fits with, like, even if you go back to, like, classic, uh, Greek philosophy, like Empedocles thought that the universe basically breathed in and out. You know, you have this coming together and this coming apart.

Amanda: Mm. You know?

Gary: Um, and that's pretty much what Barbault's talking about. When the outer planets come together and are constricted in a tight pla—like, there might be, like, it might be kind of wa—you know, like a crisis, and then as they begin to come apart, there might be this opening that—that he talks about with this, you know, splendid relaunch of civilization or what have you.

Gary: It's easy to maybe think, “Oh, that—well, you know, what the heck is he talking about? Because look around you. Like, do you see a splendid relaunch?” Well, it depends on where you're looking, I suppose.

But the other thing to remember is, like, a relaunch, and—and Re—Ray Merriman was talking about this in his recent, um, free newsletter. I get his free newsletter every week, and 'cause I appreciate his take on things. Um, but he was talking about, hey, look, a relaunch is not a culmination; it's a beginning.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: So yeah, you might not see it just yet. In fact—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —and what he said was just what I was talking about. Now, he was referring to the '90s, I think. And—and, and—but as Saturn begins to come and—and spread out away from these, um, and get into what we might call a waxing or an opening relationship with the other three outer planets, there tends to be a waxing or opening in—in social and cultural energies, and that's not gonna happen until the 2030s.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: So it's very possible that right now there's a seed of something in your life being activated. And of course, when a seed is fir—first getting activated, we don't see it.

Amanda: Right.

Gary: Can't see it. It's not even popped through the ground yet. But something's going on.

Um—so yeah, there, I feel like, um, there is—there's at least three instances of when we had these outer planet alignments, and then as Saturn came around, things opened up and—and you had this kind of, hmm, renaissance, or what Barbault was talking about, relaunch, re-whatever. Um, I f—I do, I feel like there's a lot of, um, reason for optimism, actually. Um—

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: —and so you might want to, like, just sort of like look in your life for where—where this, um, long-term activation of these cycles… Like, where am I gonna… Where do I wanna be in the 2030s?

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: You know? Um, because—

Amanda: It's not that far away, you guys. Like—

Gary: It's not that far…

Amanda: —we're talking about f—we're talking about f—three and a half years.

Gary: Right, you know.

Amanda: Yeah.

Gary: Okay, yeah. So where do I wanna be, yeah, in the next, you know, mm, three and a half to, I don't know, 10 years, you know? Right. Like—like—like Jupiter cycle, maybe. Right. Something. Yeah.

Um, because as you—as you bring your consciousness to that, um, to that cyclic kind of, like, “What in my life is like coming to a close, and what in my life is beginning? Like, where am I feeling the seeds of some seed stirring, and how can I kind of clear room for that seed to—to get the sunlight it needs and, and so on, you know?”

Because as we—as we align ourselves with the—with the potentials that the sky is showing us, m—then we're gonna be, you know, kind of doing that same chain-of-correspondence thing, where we're gonna be, you know, bringing ourselves into alignment with the alignments, and that's gonna open up space and room in our life for that energy to show itself to us and begin to, um, speak to us and—sort of lead us to the next chapter.

Amanda: I love it. I love it. Gary, thank you so much.

Gary: You're welcome.

Amanda: This has given so much food for thought, so many different things to try on. Go… Well, you're—you're gonna get Gary… When does the book come out? If we're—if you're in pre-launch, when does it actually—

Gary: So the pre-sale is—is open. The a—the official, um, launch is at UAC, so in the beginning of September is the official publish date.

Amanda: Okay.

Gary: Um, and then—

Amanda: So you'll be shipping books, and people will start to get them in—

Gary: Mid-September. I'll be shipping books in September, yep.

Amanda: Exactly. Amazing. Yeah. So you can be checking out your Mercury phase. You can be working with Thursdays starting August 13th and going all the way through September and into early October to bring, uh, to help yourself over the hump on something that's been challenging for you.

And you can also start thinking about where you wanna be in three and a half, four years. And then really, I've been thinking, 'cause I'll be f—I'll be 50 in a year and a half, so I've been like, “What—what do I w—what do I want my 50s to be about?” Hmm. And there's like a whole decade.

Gary: You'll get there just in time to be in the 50s with me for, like, six months, and then I'll be out. Nice.

Amanda: Okay. Well, you're—you're a wayshower. I love it.

Gary: I guess so. Maybe by the end I'll have two books, not just one book. There you go. Um—

Amanda: Yeah, so—

Gary: That's a good idea.

Amanda: You know, so we—we can be thinking this way, and I love what you're bringing in, that this—that even though it's… I was thinking about that as you were speaking. Like, any new beginning in your life, if you think back, it's often really hard to know you're at a significant new beginning when you're in it. Yeah. It's like you don't know what it's gonna end up being, so it's hard to know that it is going to be—

Gary: And one way to look into your chart for that is, like, four degrees is where that alignment was happening, right? And so—

Amanda: Right.

Gary: —like, even today we have, uh, Mercury and Venus came together with that. So really, we had, like, almost a grand sextile today.

Amanda: Mm.

Gary: Um, amongst us, so—

Amanda: And—and this is when we're recording it, on August 11th.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah.

Gary: Oh, yeah. Sorry.

Amanda: Yeah.

Gary: Um, so yeah, that—those—that four-degree, um, part, like, you can specifically look into that part of your chart and go, “Okay, like, what's—what's being activated by these transits?” And, um, yeah, just kind of like you said, look for that little seed that might be showing itself to you.

Amanda: Yeah. Really good. Thank you, Gary.

Gary: You're welcome.

Amanda: Thank you so much. Always great to see you. Always appreciate you. Cannot wait to see you in Chicago.

Gary: Yes.

Amanda: Yes, really appreciate you—

Gary: It'll be fun to hang out.

Amanda: —your perspective, your astrology, your dedication, the way that you just… Your—your enthusiasm for the subject matter that spills into the way you live your life, the photography that you do, the way that you write, the way that you teach. And I know that because you've taught on our platform quite a bit. Mm. And we always love—

Gary: Thank you.

Amanda: —having you. So thank you for that.

Gary: Thank you. You're welcome.

Amanda: Yep. Yep.

Gary: Thanks for holding this space for us. Appreciate it.

Amanda: It's our pleasure.

Gary: Yeah.

Amanda: Yeah. All right. And thanks all of you for being here, for being curious, for being—

Gary: Thanks, everybody.

Amanda: —yeah, for—for wanting to know more, for learning more, and for being a part of our community. Thank you, as always, for making astrology a part of your life. We'll catch you on the next episode. Take care, everybody.