Listen here:
What is the Saturn return, and why are these life milestones at around ages 30, 60, and 90 so significant?
In this episode, astrologer Marc Laurenson breaks down the pivotal role Saturn returns play in our lives and how to navigate these transformative periods.
🌟 Join Amanda and Marc as they explore:
✨ Understanding Saturn Return: The concept of Saturn return and its importance in your astrological journey.
✨ Life Milestones: How Saturn Returns mark significant turning points at ages 30, 60, and 90, and what to expect in our personal and professional lives.
✨ Personal Growth: Practical advice on how to navigate and embrace the changes and challenges during your Saturn Return and how to make the most of it.
✨ Real-Life Stories: Marc shares personal experiences and insights on how Saturn influences life’s turning points.
Whether you’re preparing for your first Saturn Return, experiencing your second, or reflecting on your third, this episode offers essential wisdom and tools to help you make the most of these transformative periods.
—
RESOURCES:
🔗 Marc's School: Dive deeper into astrology with Marc Laurenson at the Sydney Astrology School: https://sydneyastrologyschool.com/
📄 Free PDF – Lifetime Transits: Download your free guide to understanding life's major transits at https://astrologyhub.com/LIFECYCLE.
🎥 Saturn Playlist on YouTube: Explore our comprehensive Saturn playlist featuring master astrologers at https://astrologyhub.com/saturn-playlist-yt.
🌕 Join Marc in the Inner Circle EXPAND Membership: Experience Marc's guidance during the August Leo Lunar Cycles by joining the Inner Circle EXPAND membership at https://astrologyhub.com/joinexpand.
Transcript:
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:25:05
Amanda
What is the Saturn return? And why are Saturn returns that we go through in life around age 30, around age 60, and around age 90? Why are they such important turning points? If you're approaching a Saturn return or going through one now, how can you make the most of this transit? So we are going to be exploring these questions today.
00:00:25:05 – 00:00:46:19
Amanda
And I am so happy that you've decided to join us for this discussion. Thank you for tuning in. You are what has made it possible for us to have this podcast, this platform that features astrologers from all over the world, which today you're going to meet a brand new astrologer to the Astrology Podcast. Certainly not a brand new astrologer coming from Sydney, Australia.
00:00:46:19 – 00:01:07:16
Amanda
So this is just one of the things that all of you out there have enabled us to do is to have these conversations. We get to expose you to new astrologers, new approaches, new topics, and we love doing it. So thank you so much for tuning in and making this work possible.
00:01:07:18 – 00:01:35:05
Amanda
So here with me today I have an astrological professional with over 25 years of consulting and teaching experience. Mark Lawrenson, who is the founder of the Sydney Astrology School, is an accredited astrology teacher with the Federation of Australian Astrologers. He has been awarded the Federation of Australian Astrologers Diploma and received the prestigious Gold Medal for excellence with his accreditation.
00:01:35:07 – 00:01:51:18
Amanda
He will be an inner circle astrologer, guiding us through the Leo Lunar cycle in August. So Inner circle members get excited about that. And today he is here making his Astrology Hub podcast debut. So Mark, welcome to the show! I am so happy that you are here.
00:01:51:20 – 00:02:11:11
Marc
I'm really, really excited. Thank you, Amanda, for inviting me. and this is going to be, a super special podcast because we're going to be talking about, a transit, one of the major, major transits we're going to be having in our lives. And so, there's a lot to talk about here. Yeah. So can't wait to get into it.
00:02:11:13 – 00:02:24:21
Amanda
Me, too. All right. We're going to get there in just a second. But because it's your debut, I want to make sure and give the opportunity for you to tell your story. How did you come to astrology? How did you start practicing this? We'd love to know.
00:02:24:23 – 00:02:52:12
Marc
Well, I've told a lot of people, that, I became an astrologer, as a child. I got my first astrology book when I was ten years old. You know. Yeah. While the other kids were all out there. I'm playing sport on the field. I was rummaging around in libraries and bookshops, and I'd always be going to the esoteric area, you know, as a as a ten year old.
00:02:52:14 – 00:03:11:03
Marc
I was fascinated, you know, with the mysteries of life. And, I picked up an astrology book and, I was browsing through it and I thought, I know this stuff. It wasn't like, oh, this is interesting. I've got a fun. It was like, as I was reading it as a ten year old, it was like, I know this.
00:03:11:05 – 00:03:31:00
Marc
this is everything started flooding back to me. And there was a shop not very far from where I lived. that had a kind of a new agey kind of bent to it. And on the walls. I used to have all the posters of the sign. So that had the scorpion and the crab and the goat and the fish all on the walls.
00:03:31:02 – 00:03:49:24
Marc
And I would look at them as a kid, and it was kind of like they were friends. I was like, you know, that was familiar to me as a child. I was like, I know you guys, you know, I know everything about you. And so the whole idea of astrology for me felt like a remembering more than just learning.
00:03:50:01 – 00:04:10:23
Marc
So as I was taking it in slowly, taking it in over time, and reading books by other people and and becoming a little bit more familiar with the way it all worked. It was kind of like, oh yes, of course. Oh yes, of course. That's the way you do it. That's it. So I never really remember learning. I remember, I remember remembering, you know.
00:04:11:00 – 00:04:36:07
Marc
So it's really interesting how that happened. And, I didn't really actually take astrology. When I say take it seriously. I mean, become an astrologer and start putting charts together and start doing readings. until my Saturn return. So you are a great, you know, story leading up to what we're talking about now. So I was around 2930.
00:04:36:09 – 00:04:57:10
Marc
I actually, you know, I buckled down and I actually said, I'm going to put this together and I'm going to actually start, understanding it in a big way and start doing ratings for people. Now, this was a day before software, so we didn't have computers to pull it up. So we had to get out our ephemeris and our book of tables, and we had to sit down and we had to calculate.
00:04:57:12 – 00:05:24:19
Marc
We had to calculate charts back in those days by hand. So that's that's how I started. I was in my 20s. I was kind of into the new age. Wayne Wayne Dyer, Louise Hay, Marianne Williamson, all these wonderful people. But I was trying to bring them, my spiritual understanding and astrology together. And it wasn't until Stephen Faris book, The Inner Sky.
00:05:24:19 – 00:05:43:11
Marc
Steven brought out his very first book in the mid to late 80s, that I picked that up and I went, oh, that was a major turning point for me. But being able to bring spirituality, my understanding of astrology on a spiritual level, and then being able to bring it into the context of of how we understand the sky and how we understand the chart.
00:05:43:15 – 00:06:13:08
Marc
And they both they both work beautifully together. And, you know, ever since then, you know, that's the way I've been doing my, my astrology. That's the way I've been doing one of my readings. So I come from that place. I come from that place. So Sydney Astrology School started around, I'm doing a master's class for you, on the midlife transits Pluto Square, Pluto, Neptune Spring, Neptune and Uranus opposite Uranus, which happens late 30s early 40s.
00:06:13:10 – 00:06:26:10
Marc
And that was the turning point for me, getting my school together and also getting, my business in a big way. So, and ever since then, everything just started to escalate after that. So.
00:06:26:12 – 00:06:30:23
Amanda
Wow. And those mid-life transits are what you're going to be teaching about in the inner circle, right?
00:06:31:00 – 00:06:58:23
Marc
Exactly, exactly. I can't wait because they're sort of exciting. And I can't imagine a lot of the people who are tuning in would be going through them, because the quite a long period of time, they start in the late 30s and they finish kind of, towards the mid 40s. So that whole period of time, which is around 6 or 7 years, you're going to have this big, huge intermission of life transition of change that happens to us.
00:06:58:23 – 00:07:10:09
Marc
And we all, we all go through it in different ways, of course. But you do come out it the other side. I say it's like the it's like a second act, you know, that goes up on the second act after they're all over.
00:07:10:11 – 00:07:17:23
Amanda
And I, I'm almost at the end of that. I'm 46. So I'm like, definitely in that period of the and then the.
00:07:17:23 – 00:07:31:08
Marc
Other side of it. Yes. You know the other side of it. Yeah. Yeah. So I want to say Astrology Hub and getting Astrology Hub together for you was you will you were going through all of that during the early times of Astrology Hub.
00:07:31:10 – 00:07:50:20
Amanda
Oh my gosh. And thank God for all of you astrologers who have helped me through all those huge transit. Yeah. Okay, Mark, I have a question for you. Just on your story, what were your parents like? Were they into the esoteric like, did you get introduced to the concepts through them or not?
00:07:50:21 – 00:08:11:22
Marc
Not really. No. My mother, my mother had a kind of a spiritual bent. but she wasn't into astrology. But she understood astrology. Every time I would talk about it should be, you know, should be into it, should be listening to it. But I wouldn't say she was kind of, a person who, would have come up with it in her in her own way.
00:08:11:22 – 00:08:34:02
Marc
But she was very spiritual. She was very, she was very connected to the higher force. And what the higher force? Me. she was brought up very religiously. So she had that kind of religious bent as well. But, my father, I didn't really know my father because my parents divorced when I was a kid, so I had very little to do with him.
00:08:34:04 – 00:08:48:22
Marc
but again, he was he wasn't into any of that at all. In fact, he probably would have gone down the other road. He probably would have been quite a skeptic. So it wasn't really in my family, even though that my mother was very open to it. Yeah.
00:08:48:24 – 00:09:13:19
Amanda
that's just the coolest. That's the coolest thing. You are definitely unicorns. But I have interviewed several astrologers who have that experience of remembering when they when they, they encounter astrology. And then it's, it's a remembering, not a learning. And there's not that many of you, but I definitely have heard that story. And it just it's just so fascinating how the soul works and how you know, we get exposed to these things.
00:09:13:19 – 00:09:34:24
Amanda
And it's like it's so on the path. And that sounds like your experience. So very excited to have you here, Mark. And your and your spiritual orientation is so perfect for what we do in the inner circle, because it is this marriage of astrology and spiritual growth in that community. So it's beautiful. All right. Let's talk about the Saturn return.
00:09:35:01 – 00:09:40:16
Amanda
What is it and why is it such an important turning point in our lives?
00:09:40:21 – 00:10:00:09
Marc
Well, the Saturn return is Saturn takes 29.5 years to go right around the chart and then come back to itself again. So you're going to get a Saturn return at 29 at 230, and then you're going to get another one at 59, 60, and then you're going to get another one if you're lucky enough to live that long, just as you're in a, in the very late 80s.
00:10:00:09 – 00:10:24:03
Marc
Okay. So, what's happening, with the Saturn return is it is dividing life into what we call three Saturn trimesters. So you have the youth, then you have the adult, and then you have the elder or the wise person. Okay. So then the three trimesters we go through. And so I want to say the Saturn return is like a milestone.
00:10:24:05 – 00:10:49:05
Marc
It's like the dividing point. If you're looking at, a child going from primary school or elementary school, going to high school and then going to college or university, I think that's a really good analogy, because in the first 30 years of our lives, we are in primary school. I know a lot of people thinking, you know, I'm in my 20s and I've got it all together and I'm going, you think so?
00:10:49:05 – 00:11:12:22
Marc
But, you know, you haven't quite got a, you know, you can still play around, you can still make mistakes or that kind of stuff. But by the time you hit your 30, by the time you hit 2930, it's going to be a part of you. Now that actually goes on. Growing up, you know, there's a part of you that actually faces something around maturity, faces or something around wisdom.
00:11:12:24 – 00:11:32:08
Marc
And I want to say, I'm going to go down the road of the spiritual contract. I'm going to go down the road of your spiritual contract becomes very, very, it become very aware of it. You might not be able to put it into those words, but you become very aware of why you're here at that particular time.
00:11:32:10 – 00:11:53:07
Marc
And all of a sudden you think, I've got to start making really strong decisions about where my life is going and and what I'm doing in life? And I think to many of us, we still think for some reason, we still think that life kind of owns us. You know, life has child is in charge of us, you know, is in control of us.
00:11:53:07 – 00:12:15:22
Marc
We we want to point outside of ourselves, and we want to blame life for the things not working out the way we want it to work out. But Saturn goes, sorry. You know, you got it the wrong way around. You're in charge of your life, you are in charge of your life. And you know every step you make and and everything you do in life, you are in charge of that.
00:12:15:24 – 00:12:40:12
Marc
And so a lot of us might go, oh, I like that. I like that idea. I like the idea that I'm in charge of life. But then there's another level to it. And Saturn goes, well, there is something else that I need to tell you, and that is because you're in charge of life. You are 100% responsible for everything that goes on, which means you can't blame anybody anymore.
00:12:40:14 – 00:13:03:09
Marc
You know, you're 100% responsible for every move you make, every story you think, every action you take, every belief you foster, everything in your life. You are responsible for. So you know how we love to blame. You know we love to. Actually, I always my mother spoke to us. My it's my money or my husband or my boss.
00:13:03:09 – 00:13:21:09
Marc
You know, we want to point outside of ourselves. We want to actually go there. The reason why my life's not working and Saturn goes, speak to the Hackett, because he is a good listener. And I want to know where you fit into this. I want to know what you're doing. I want to know where you're giving away your power.
00:13:21:09 – 00:13:43:23
Marc
You're giving away your control. Because Saturn's always going to be about you being in the driver's seat of your life. And so at the first Saturn return, you kind of get this feeling of, and I, I don't want to say contraction or restriction, but there is a feeling of I've got to do something about this. I've got to do something about taking life into my own hands.
00:13:44:00 – 00:14:05:05
Marc
And that's why people make these really, really strong decisions around this time. You know, they'll get married, they'll get divorced, they'll have a baby, they'll get a job, they'll lose a job, they'll go overseas. They'll make a big, big decision around what they're going to do and where they're heading in life based on trying in some way to take their life back into their own hands again.
00:14:05:07 – 00:14:30:07
Marc
Now it's a little bit like, you know, it's going to work or it's not going to work. Well, we don't know. You know, we don't know. We hope it's going to work. But, I want to say that for a lot of people, this is the springboard kind of thing into adulthood. It's their first major decision that they're making around wanting to to get the ball rolling for the next 29 years of their lives.
00:14:30:07 – 00:14:56:08
Marc
And I want to say it, it's all a lot of people when I actually go, the Saturn return or 29, 30 time of my life, was the set up for where I am now, you know, it was the foundation or it was the structure for where I am now. So again, you know, it's going to happen differently for everybody because everyone has a different, Saturn in their charts, buy house and buy sign and buy aspect.
00:14:56:10 – 00:15:15:16
Marc
So everyone's going to have a different version of it. But I want to say underneath it all is you being able to come into another level of, you know, the next going from for primary school to high school. It's a next level of growing up. It's a next level of you taking your life seriously. and there is a contract with Saturn.
00:15:15:18 – 00:15:39:00
Marc
Saturn I always feel Saturn has is very contract conscious. I often, see images of how about us just about to embark on our journey down here? And Saturn is like, where are you going? And it's like, I'm heading down to this plane. And then Saturn is like, you haven't seen this. you haven't seen this yet, you know?
00:15:39:00 – 00:15:55:03
Marc
And the Saturn's contract, you know, it's it's really, really, it's one of those things I've actually written a contract that I think that Saturn might have for us. do you want me to read it to you?
00:15:55:05 – 00:15:58:06
Amanda
I love this. Yes. Please read it to us.
00:15:58:08 – 00:16:19:15
Marc
I actually, I actually wrote this for my students, but, I think it fits in, so I've got, this is sentence contract. I understand that incarnating onto the Earth plane in a body is a cosmic mission for the soul. I realize it may not be easy, and the challenges I may face are purely here for my spiritual growth and development.
00:16:19:17 – 00:16:52:22
Marc
I am fully aware that I'm 100% responsible for how my life pans out, which includes all the choices I make, the way I responded react, every thought I think, and every belief I foster. I cannot blame anyone or anything for my predicament or any pain of my experience. I am totally in charge of how I manage these. I realize my mission is not so much about who I am externally, but based more on personal integrity, respect for life, and the development of a profound strength of character.
00:16:52:24 – 00:17:24:07
Marc
I will not cut corners, cheat or play victim as this goes against my reason for being here. I'm totally aware of consequences. What I put out becomes my reality. So I take full responsibility of all my mistakes and the ones I make along the way. Not seeing them as bad, but as signposts with getting back on track. The Earth Plane will be my workshop for a short period of time, so I will commit to working usefully, productively and effectively in the structure and the parameters it has to offer.
00:17:24:09 – 00:17:34:24
Marc
Feeling honored to fulfill my spiritual contract in the land of Foam. So that's what Saturn says. Could you sign that?
00:17:35:01 – 00:18:06:10
Amanda
Do you know, Mark, as you were speaking that letter out loud, I was thinking, how amazing would it be if at the first Saturn return we actually signed that? And then at the second Saturn return, we were visited. What we sign and we we we sign a fresh copy and then we, you know, it's that is powerful. Why do you think Saturn like what do you think the ultimate purpose of Saturn playing this role in our soul evolution is?
00:18:06:12 – 00:18:32:20
Marc
Because if we're if we're here because we have we have a mission, we have a cosmic mission for being here. There's not one person that incarnate that just landed here for no reason. And so we have to achieve something. We have to accomplish something. And a lot of people tend to go down the road of Saturn being an outward accomplishment, you know, getting to the top of your mountain career wise or becoming famous or whatever.
00:18:32:22 – 00:18:54:02
Marc
and I want to say that has very little to do with that. It is getting the deployment of life. it's a deployment of life. The deployment of of who you want to be. You want to leave this planet with a sense of feeling. I've done what I've had to do. I've come here and I've. I've completed it.
00:18:54:03 – 00:19:20:14
Marc
You know, I've. I've fulfilled. I've fulfilled what I've come here for. And so Saturn is always on now. And I want to say in a good way, he's always on our case about making sure that happens. Oh, you know, you know how sometimes we can, we can get so waylaid and we can get so caught up in our fears and our worries and, you know, our money and our partners and, you know, and our emotions.
00:19:20:16 – 00:19:43:04
Marc
And we get so far off track. So, so far of what we're here to do. And then we get to the end of our lives and we go, what was that about? You know, I came here for a particular reason. I came here to do something really important. And it felt like, you know, it felt like I just was defeated or I gave up or I got distracted or whatever.
00:19:43:07 – 00:20:04:06
Marc
And Saturn is the planet that actually goes, get on track, stay on track. Make sure you achieve what you've come here to achieve. And that's why Saturn, the first Saturn return, is the very first time we actually go, oh, okay. You know, okay.
00:20:04:08 – 00:20:32:07
Amanda
Wow. What you said earlier about people often reflecting that the first Saturn return is, is the moment that put them on the track that they're on. Now. In my first Saturn return, I decided to have my first child. The birth of Madeline is absolutely the catalyst that put all the events into play. The moving from New York to Hawaii, eventually finding astrology, eventually, you know, going through that very dark night of the soul.
00:20:32:07 – 00:20:57:05
Amanda
All of it began with that decision to have a child. And it's it's it's amazing. Do you think that certain like if your chart is ruled by Saturn, is it easier or harder for some people? Is it is it even more of that urgent need for some people based on their charts? How does the personal wiring play into this?
00:20:57:07 – 00:21:24:06
Marc
I think that that some people will get a larger dose of Saturn than others. I really do, and I think it's wired into or it's played into, the whole cosmic kind of story of your chart. You know, I think if you've had, lives or your family passes down a particular energy that needs more Saturn in this lifetime, you're going to get it.
00:21:24:08 – 00:21:50:10
Marc
You're going to get a lot more Saturn. Saturn in my chart aspects six planets, including squaring my sun and moon opposition. And so my Saturn return, my Saturn's very, very strong in my chart. Like exceptionally strong and my Saturn Returns are both doozies. Both of them very, very, very different. And so I feel in a way, because Saturn is so prominent in my chart, and it's very karmic for me.
00:21:50:10 – 00:22:26:10
Marc
And I know why, because it's squares my notes as well, my notes with my side of my moon. So it's all wrapped up in a in a comic story for me. But I know that Saturn is such an important planet for me. this like time to to really I want to say to really, to pull everything, to pull everything in and to to not waste or not waste my life this time, you know, not to to to become, I want to say, to become more conscious and become more aware of of who I want to be.
00:22:26:10 – 00:22:52:21
Marc
This like time and work really hard at that. And Saturn is never, ever going to be easy. It's not a planet that's going to be easy. So even though some people might have a slightly easier road with it, you know you're still going to have Saturn and it might not be aspecting too many things, but you're still going to wherever it lands and whatever house and sign it's going to be in, that's, that's that's it for you.
00:22:52:21 – 00:23:16:18
Marc
That's where you're going to have to put all your effort, all your application or your focus or your energy into accomplishing that, into getting the diploma in that particular area. so I want to say that people will have different variations of the degrees of Saturn in their lives. But, you know, and sometimes it's going to be really, really strong, you know, like a Saturn return time.
00:23:16:18 – 00:23:32:20
Marc
Of course, is going to be one of them. But any time, you know, any aspects to it or aspects from it, you know, aspects from a transiting Saturn, you're going to go through big times during those times as well. So so you never clear. Okay.
00:23:32:22 – 00:24:02:20
Amanda
All right. No, no nobody's escaping. But but for what you just described, it's so clear that it's a but it doesn't feel benevolent often in the moment. But it is absolutely a benevolent force. It's like your biggest advocate for for graduating from this plane with a sense of, of fulfillment. And I did it versus regret, which I think so many people do leave this plane with that sense of regret, like, there were things that I, I was meant to do that I never did.
00:24:02:22 – 00:24:30:10
Marc
Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And just that, just that feeling of because Saturn for me is always a feeling that, of of graduating, you know, it's always that feeling of the diploma. It's always that feeling of making sure, you know, I, I achieved it and whatever it is, because we all come onto the planet to, to go through our lives in very, very different ways.
00:24:30:12 – 00:24:55:08
Marc
But really it's always going to be about some kind of spiritual advancement. In the end. It's always going to be about a level of moving ahead or expanding spiritually in some kind of way. And I feel that if we do that, if we live a little bit more spiritually attuned or a little bit kinder or a little bit more heart centered or whatever you want to say, if you leave that better than what you came in.
00:24:55:08 – 00:25:19:18
Marc
Saturn's really, really pleased with you. Like really pleased with you. If you've kind of wasted your life, if you've kind of run in the opposite direction, if you've been too scared to do anything, you know, if you've lived a very dog eat dog kind of life and just out for survival, it's kind of gets to get to the end of your life and you kind of think it wasn't really what I came here to do.
00:25:19:20 – 00:25:33:17
Marc
And I don't want to say Saturn will be upset with you because I don't think it will be, but you'll be upset with yourself. You know, you won't be happy and you'll have to come back and probably do it again and again.
00:25:33:17 – 00:25:48:20
Amanda
No escaping. Right? Mark, I know you've been through two Saturn Returns now, so you said that in the first one. It's like we're going from from primary school into high school. College. What was the analogy?
00:25:48:22 – 00:25:52:05
Marc
from primary school to high school and high school.
00:25:52:07 – 00:25:52:14
Amanda
Okay.
00:25:52:15 – 00:25:54:01
Marc
Great university.
00:25:54:03 – 00:25:58:22
Amanda
Okay. So in our 30s, 30 to 60 is like high school.
00:25:58:24 – 00:26:01:03
Marc
Right? In the high school years. Yeah.
00:26:01:05 – 00:26:11:09
Amanda
Okay. So like and you mentioned earlier the adult years and you mentioned earlier that we have those significant, midlife transits.
00:26:11:11 – 00:26:13:21
Marc
Yeah. Right in the middle. Right in the middle.
00:26:13:23 – 00:26:44:04
Amanda
Is there anything that someone can do with their in that window? The 30 to 60. Yeah. As they're gearing up towards their second and Saturn return to be more prepared to to and again I'm saying this a little facetiously, but to make Saturn proud and to make Saturn feel feel good about the accomplishments. But is there anything that that can be done in that period of time to really prepare us for a happy graduation into the elder years?
00:26:44:06 – 00:27:24:10
Marc
I'm always thinking that, the number one question to constantly ask yourself, particularly in that middle period, particularly in that adult period, is always ask yourself how in charge of what I'm doing at the moment, am I? You know, if I'm if I'm feeling that I'm doing stuff where I feel like I'm being dragged along by life, where I'm feeling, you know, that I'm having to do stuff I don't want to do because of, you know, there might be something to do with, you know, your husband or your money or your family or, or just being caught in a job that you don't want to be in.
00:27:24:12 – 00:27:42:18
Marc
And it feels very much like, you know, I'm having to do this. I feel like I'm at the mercy of this. I feel like, I don't really feel like I can make choices around this. I feel like and so I want to say that, that that's going to be one of those surefire things for you to work on.
00:27:42:18 – 00:28:11:12
Marc
Because if you're not in the driver's seat of your life, if you're not feeling that your life is taking shape based on based on your decisions, based on your choices, based on the way you're reacting and responding and and making your life come into, you know, getting getting a, getting a feeling of, putting your life in a, in a way that looks like it is actually heading somewhere.
00:28:11:12 – 00:28:34:17
Marc
You know, that kind of feeling, that feeling of, oh, I know where I'm going. I know where I'm heading. I want to say, if it's not like that, then you really do have to sit down and have a good talk to yourself, because what you're supposed to be doing during that period of time between 30 and 60 is to be able to be ironing all this out.
00:28:34:19 – 00:28:51:03
Marc
You're supposed to be in a place where you're going to make mistakes. Of course you're going to make mistakes. We're going to go down different roads. We're going to go to areas where we go, oh shit, I shouldn't have done that, you know? but, you know, it's not about making it bad. It's not about bad, bad person.
00:28:51:03 – 00:29:07:24
Marc
It's about going, oh, okay, I know I'm not supposed to be doing that. Oh, that kettle is hot. I better not touch it again. You know, is that feeling of I can. I've learned and I've grown up and I'm matured enough to know that, you know, and smart enough to know that going down that road is not going to give me what I want.
00:29:08:04 – 00:29:29:08
Marc
So I won't do that again. And so keeping on track is about being aware of the mistakes you make along the way and become accountable for that. And that's another. That's another really good Saturn word is accountability. We don't like being accountable. We don't like it at all. We like to point outside of ourselves and say it was that person's problem.
00:29:29:10 – 00:29:50:19
Marc
Oh, that particular situation got the better of me. We don't like actually going. I got myself into that situation. My choice was the thing that made it difficult for me. And so I want to say, when you own your choices or when you own the things that got you into into trouble when you own them. As I said, this is not about coming down on yourself.
00:29:50:19 – 00:30:11:24
Marc
It's not about making yourself feel bad. It's exactly the opposite. It's actually being kind to yourself. It's actually saying, okay, I'm learning. I'm growing. You know, I'm the soul here doing the best I can. And now I'm recognizing the things in my life that work and don't work. You know, it's the doctor feel. You know how doctor feels like.
00:30:11:24 – 00:30:14:17
Marc
How's that working for you? That.
00:30:14:19 – 00:30:15:14
Amanda
Yeah.
00:30:15:16 – 00:30:39:01
Marc
And that's, you know, so when you're constantly in situations where you're feeling out of control, where you're feeling in situations where you're at the mercy of people have gone on top of you or whatever, it's kind of like, how's that working for you? It's not, it's not. So let's turn this one around. Let's find ways of being able to take the situation back into your own hands.
00:30:39:03 – 00:31:21:08
Marc
And you are smart enough now because you're in the adult phase. You are smart enough now to know what works and what doesn't. And so let's start making decisions based on what does work, rather than constantly perpetuating and going around in circles with the things that don't. And so it's work. It is work and it is focus and it is discipline and it is concentration, and it is all those things, all those words that we we know Saturn for, you know, and it is determination and resilience and that, you know, it's we do have to put up with stop Saturn and we do have to to do the hard yards with Saturn.
00:31:21:10 – 00:31:42:24
Marc
But when we when we do them, you know, when we buckle down and when we do them, there's something about a profound strength of character that I wrote in the contract that happens through this, you know, you, your sense of who you are and looking at yourself in the mirror and liking what you see back is very, very Saturnian.
00:31:42:24 – 00:32:05:23
Marc
It's very Saturnian. It's being able to to hold your head up high in all situations and realized I played the game well. I played it properly, you know, I didn't cheat, I didn't go under the, you know, I didn't go underneath, you know, I, I played it, I played it, integrity. Integrity, integrity is my favorite Saturn word.
00:32:06:00 – 00:32:18:09
Marc
And I want to actually say that when you become an integral person, meaning what you see on the outside is who you are on the inside. Got that? Saturn gets total Saturn.
00:32:18:11 – 00:32:50:13
Amanda
Mark. Okay. Question for you in terms of the emotions that Saturn might speak to us through, meaning we have ways to justify certain things in our life, right? We have certain justifications for paths, or you're not taking this path or doing this or and so that's all very mental, right? But if there's if there's certain emotions that people are experiencing, could that be Saturn speaking to them through their emotional body, through their physical body.
00:32:50:16 – 00:32:58:15
Amanda
And if so, what kind of emotions would be indicators of of maybe there's some Saturn work to do here.
00:32:58:17 – 00:33:24:24
Marc
when you when you feel emotionally out of control, you know, when your emotions have got the better of you, you know, when you're being thrown around by your emotions and by your feelings, say you're you're being controlled by your emotions. It's almost like your feelings. I got the better of you. Saturn is actually saying, and I know some people are more emotional than others.
00:33:24:24 – 00:33:43:14
Marc
I know that and I know emotions are very, very important for us because we need them and we need to feel comfortable with them and we need to use them and we need to own them and we need to love them. But Saturn is always saying, are you going to allow your emotions to get the better of you?
00:33:43:16 – 00:34:09:03
Marc
Are you? Are you going to allow your emotions, your feelings, to stop you from becoming the person you've come here to be so you can use your emotions in a really positive way? You know you can use your emotions in a way where that can be really productive and that can be really effective, where you can put your emotions into something that's going to work really beautifully and really well, not only for you, but for everybody around you.
00:34:09:05 – 00:34:34:18
Marc
You know, you can put your emotions to work in a really, really good way, and that's what Saturn allows. Saturn loves people working and not wasting their emotions, because you see so many people who are emotional, but it's all over the shop. It doesn't go anywhere. It doesn't mean anything. My mother was one of these people, you know, she was always like really emotional that, you know, nothing ever came of it.
00:34:34:20 – 00:35:08:15
Marc
And, you know, it was kind of like, you know, wasted feelings that just didn't have any way to go. And so I want to say that, you know, for, for Saturn, people said, oh, Saturn, so unemotional. It's kind of like, well, it's not unemotional. It just wants it doesn't want your emotions to ride roughshod over you. It doesn't want your emotions to to drag you around your life at once, your emotions to be pulled in so your emotions can actually do something purposeful and productive and worthwhile.
00:35:08:19 – 00:35:20:01
Marc
That's what it wants. Promotion on people. So emotional people can still be emotional people, but it Saturn is always like, do something, do something really positive with them, you know?
00:35:20:03 – 00:35:44:01
Amanda
So okay, so we we've had this adult period of life. We're asking the questions how in charge of my life am I? And the more we can say 100% to that question, we're doing good. We're on the Saturn path for that 30 to 60. What happens at the second Saturn return? How is that different from the first one?
00:35:44:01 – 00:35:47:05
Amanda
And what's what's that all about?
00:35:47:07 – 00:36:13:21
Marc
Well, hopefully and we should don't guaranteed of course. But hopefully by the time you're hitting 60 just before you turn 60, hopefully you're in a place where you've been there, done that, you know, hopefully you feel, you know, I've been through a lot of experiences. I've gone through ups and downs. I've, you know, my life's taken many, many different shapes and forms.
00:36:13:23 – 00:36:35:23
Marc
And now I'm hitting 60. I feel like I can look back at it all and hopefully because you're moving into this wise, this old, you know, this crone, which means the wise person that can actually see it all for what it is. And what you used to worry about, what you used to fret about, or what you used to put a lot of anxious attention on.
00:36:36:00 – 00:37:08:20
Marc
You can kind of look back and smile in a way you can kind of actually go, that doesn't really mean anything to me anymore. I've got past that. I'm kind of beyond, putting all that angst into, into areas that I don't need to anymore. And so there's something about turning 60 that I feel I often when I do readings for people around this age, you know, especially in the early 60s, I always tell them, you've got nothing to lose anymore.
00:37:08:22 – 00:37:29:14
Marc
You know, when you're young, you're so caught up, you're so caught up with, with so much, you know, putting yourself out there. I've got so much to lose on so many levels. And then the second Saturn return goes. You've got nothing to lose anymore. You mean you're really the elder now? You're really the grown up now. You know, you're in the early title charge of your life now.
00:37:29:16 – 00:37:47:24
Marc
And so, you know, if you've if you had been married and had kids and all that kind of stuff, usually they're all grown up. They're all got their own lives going on for themselves now. And you can you can be the person you really, really want to be. You can really take authority of your life in a big, big way now.
00:37:48:01 – 00:38:08:04
Marc
And as I said, this is not guaranteed because you see people in their 60s and 70s that are still is caught up as they were when they were young. But I want to say that there's a lot of people who get to that age that come to a lovely Saturnian feeling that they can, that can sit nicely into their body.
00:38:08:04 – 00:38:34:04
Marc
It feels very much like I'm very much like a solidarity, feeling of being able to be solid enough to be able to handle whatever goes on. It's a little bit like, I'm not going to I'm not going to turn myself inside out and upside down the way I would appease ago. You know, I'm in a place now where I can actually be a stronger version of myself as an adult, as a, you know, as our crone.
00:38:34:06 – 00:38:56:19
Marc
And I'm wise enough now to realize that I'm not going to waste, I'm not going to waste my emotions or I'm not going to waste you know, my life on things that don't matter anymore. Things that are meaningless, things that, you know, I'm I'm very concerned about now, what what is purpose for what is meaningful for me. And that's where I want to put my attention.
00:38:56:19 – 00:39:16:12
Marc
I just want to put my attention wholly and solely into that area. And, that's very Saturnian, you know, that's very that's working Saturn at its best, that feeling of being on top of your life, you know, that feeling of really getting to the, to the, to the top of the mountain and being able to look down, you know, from the top.
00:39:16:14 – 00:39:44:16
Amanda
So, Mark, do you find that the awareness of the astrological invitations of Saturn, that that people who have that awareness and are actively working with these energies as they're going through these different phases of life? Yeah, that it makes moving through the milestones more graceful. Or do you still like that? Maybe challenges come up at these milestones, but they're but they're more more equipped or resourced to deal with them.
00:39:44:16 – 00:39:46:02
Amanda
Like what do you see?
00:39:46:04 – 00:40:11:05
Marc
I think if you're aware of Saturn, I think if you're an astrologer in astrology to astrology and understand Saturn, I feel that the awareness of knowing what you're going through, you know, and being in a particular situation that might be feeling very hard on you or might be feeling that, you know, I'm having to face something that makes me feel like I have to, you know, step up to the plate.
00:40:11:07 – 00:40:32:17
Marc
you know, having that, having that knowledge, having that understanding, will help you, will help you because you'll understand the lesson behind it. You'll understand this is what Saturn is trying to teach me, to take this into my own hands and make the choices, make choices that are actually going to work for me rather than work against me.
00:40:32:19 – 00:41:03:24
Marc
It's a little bit like I had the choice now to make this into what I want to make it into. And so, I want to say that the awareness of that will probably help you get through it, for sure. I'm not saying that's going to make it any easier, because you're going to be faced with Saturn stuff, regardless of whether you know about it or not, but working through it and getting to the other side of it, if you know it and you're aware of it, I feel would be would be easier for sure.
00:41:04:03 – 00:41:28:04
Marc
But I know a lot of people who know nothing about astrology had no understanding of astrology that have worked. Saturn's beautifully, really, really well, and it's just on a soul level, because every single person has their charts inside of I know their charts. They charts are constantly working inside of them so that people have never, never even understood astrology or looked at astrology book or whatever.
00:41:28:10 – 00:41:49:05
Marc
I still doing wonderful stuff with their Saturn. So now I've seen that. Wow. And and vice versa. I've seen a few people who know a lot about astrology, you know, that I still, you know, going through speed humps. But again, at the same time, you know, we're learning whether we know about it or not. But, I always think being suborned is being poor.
00:41:49:11 – 00:41:54:15
Marc
so if you do know a little bit about it, it would, it would be, it would be helpful for sure.
00:41:54:17 – 00:42:07:13
Amanda
We talked a little bit about the kinds of, of challenges and decisions that are made at the first Saturn return, what kind of challenges and decisions are being made of the second Saturn return?
00:42:07:15 – 00:42:33:00
Marc
the second Saturn return is often not always, but often a lot larger than the first one. I think the first one will often be, quite dramatic. You'll make quite dramatic decisions in the first one. The second one tends to be a little easier when I say a little easier. It could be. It could be something that, where you might, stop it.
00:42:33:02 – 00:42:57:12
Marc
You know, you'll stop thinking about retirement or you'll stop thinking about slowing down, or you'll start thinking about, oh, you know that cruise I've always wanted to go on or that, you know, around the world holiday I've always been putting off because I've been working too hard, you know, it's it's got that lighter flavor to it. I find women, particularly in their early 60s, turning 60.
00:42:57:12 – 00:43:20:01
Marc
And in the early 60s, they get this incredible new lease on life. They really do. It's almost like they come into their own. It's almost like you watch them at astrology conferences, astrology conferences, are full of ladies around their second Saturn return, and they're all kind of, you know, they're all kind of feeling, like, you know, they're driving their own ship now.
00:43:20:03 – 00:43:41:01
Marc
And so there might be there might be decisions made around, are we going to move or we kind of because a lot of people move at this time. A lot of people might go, we've been in our house most of our lives. Let's, let's move to the country or let's move to the beach or, or whatever. So, you know, it's kind of got that kind of flavor to it.
00:43:41:03 – 00:44:04:22
Marc
It's not as dramatic as the first one. The first one feels very much like, you know, I have to make really, really strong decisions about the way my life is going to take shape for the next, you know, 29 years. And so the decision I make now and what's happening with me now is crucial. So it's kind of life changing.
00:44:04:24 – 00:44:27:23
Marc
I've never really seen it that dramatic. For the second one, I feel that a lot of people in my second one, I had my second one a few years ago, very different to my first one. My second one was I moved out of Sydney up to the Blue Mountains and my, which is about two hours out of Sydney, and my, school went online, totally online.
00:44:28:00 – 00:44:31:02
Marc
And I got married.
00:44:31:04 – 00:44:32:21
Amanda
Those are some big things that.
00:44:32:22 – 00:44:49:23
Marc
Yeah, that's it. And, because, same sex relationships were, made legal, in 2017, which was the year before my Saturn Return one. So right on my second. Exactly. Yeah. You love the timing of that timing.
00:44:49:23 – 00:44:50:06
Amanda
Yes.
00:44:50:06 – 00:45:14:23
Marc
And, and then, my partner and I have been together for 20 years and at these we as soon as it became legal, we said, let's do it. And my second Saturn return was coming up, and, yeah. So we got married. My second Saturn return, and, my Saturn's in the seventh house anymore. Yeah, yeah, in Capricorn in the seventh.
00:45:15:00 – 00:45:23:02
Marc
squaring my side of my moon. So it's, Yeah, that was my second Saturn return. It was not my idea. It's a lot more fun.
00:45:23:04 – 00:45:41:22
Amanda
Yeah. Sounds like an amazing. Yeah. All right. So. So we have the so we have around 30. We have the second one around 60. And then we have the third one like you said, if we're lucky enough blessed enough to make it to that. What is the flavor of that one.
00:45:41:24 – 00:46:10:19
Marc
Well, that I haven't really had a lot of experience with it because I don't know too many people. I haven't done people's charts of that age, but my mother in law, is, 88 turning 89. So she's just had her third Saturn return. and her husband, who was in his 90s, 94, which, of course, you know, people are going to go, oh, well, you know, his timing is pretty much up anyway.
00:46:10:21 – 00:46:39:19
Marc
But, he died. He died. And so I want to actually say for the third one, from what I'm getting from her, because she's having to have a good look at that. Now she's having to really have a very Saturnian, kind of understanding of the end of life. You know, it's a feeling now of her really taking in that that's the reality because Saturn to reality test.
00:46:39:22 – 00:47:05:14
Marc
You know, Saturn is always saying this is the way it is. You know, Saturn doesn't color things. Saturn doesn't, you know, put tinsel and and gloss over everything. That's Saturn is like, this is this is it, this is the way it is. And so she's having to do that. She's having to actually look at life, look at the end of life, realizing that we are here for short periods of time, even though we do, you know, can live that as long as I have.
00:47:05:16 – 00:47:29:04
Marc
But there is going to the reality is that we're going to transition. We're all going to transition back to, you know, basically where we come from. and I want to say that Saturn is giving her a very realistic kind of look at that, rather than getting overly emotional rather than going, oh, I just want to dress in black and cry for the rest of my life.
00:47:29:06 – 00:48:05:00
Marc
It's kind of a little bit like, no, I, I've got to sit down with this and I've got to process this. I've got to understand this. I've got to see it for what it is. And again, it's about her being able to be in a place of taking charge of herself and how she's going to respond to this and what life means to her for her last few years of life, and how she can maybe, in a way, work on, maybe a couple of little bits and pieces that she needs to work on in the last few years so she can she can leave feeling good about herself and good about life, but she's
00:48:05:00 – 00:48:13:00
Marc
having to face saying goodbye to somebody she's been with for 67 years. And, wow. She.
00:48:13:01 – 00:48:13:24
Amanda
Yeah.
00:48:14:01 – 00:48:43:24
Marc
Wow. So I want to say that I think everybody in their late 80s is going to be facing not necessarily a death, but it's going to be facing the end of their lives. Right. You know, within a next handful of years. So Saturn can actually be the the way of being able to have a kind of, more realistic, less emotional understanding of what it's all about in the end.
00:48:44:01 – 00:48:51:11
Marc
and, and be able to, to take charge of dealing with the end of life. Yeah.
00:48:51:13 – 00:49:19:15
Amanda
Wow. Oh my gosh. Mark that has been such a brilliant walk through. I mean, I feel like if this is the only astrology talk you ever listen to, you have just gotten so much incredible guidance and guiding questions and perspectives and that could really, literally carry you through the end of your life. I mean, I'm just so grateful, Mark, that you have come here to have this this particular conversation.
00:49:19:17 – 00:49:49:03
Amanda
Just thank you for that and very excited to hear your your more detailed take on the midlife transits. When you teach your mastery class in the inner circle. And for any of you who like this idea of these life cycle transits, we do have a free guide that we put together. And I wanted to just give you the link for that because we go through a lot of these big life cycle transits and give you some, like a PDF version of takeaways from each of those phases of life.
00:49:49:05 – 00:50:11:03
Amanda
You can get that at astrology hub.com/life cycle. It can be a very helpful little, entourage kind of document that you can take through all these different phases of life. And God, the contract thing is just brilliant. As a Capricorn, I just I love the idea of like, okay, I'm going to sign a contract with Saturn. That is good.
00:50:11:05 – 00:50:37:14
Amanda
That is good. And just, you know, it's it's we've lost the milestones and the rites of passage in our modern culture for the most part. I know not everybody has, but and using astrology to mark these moments, I think is really powerful. You know, it's something that we we it's available to all of us, regardless of where we were born and, and what religious background or anything.
00:50:37:19 – 00:50:43:19
Amanda
We can all connect with it. And they're built into the natural cycles of life.
00:50:43:21 – 00:50:44:11
Marc
Exactly.
00:50:44:11 – 00:50:56:12
Amanda
Why not, you know, why not celebrate your friends when they go through their Saturn return and their second Saturn return and their third Saturn return? I mean, it's built in and we can celebrate each other as we go through these phases of life.
00:50:56:14 – 00:51:26:20
Marc
I agree, I totally agree because they're they're, you know, they are they are meant they are meant in our lives for us to be able to, you know, because everything, everything is cyclic and everything, everything is going around. And I like to look at it going up like that. You know, as a spiral that is changed. So the celebration is not just a completion in a way, but it's a it's a next level of who you are, which I, which I really, really love.
00:51:26:22 – 00:51:48:07
Amanda
Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. Well, we can we can do this together in community. We can do this. We can bring these ideas to our families. We can bring them to our our friends and our circles and start to bring more awareness to this, because it's only helpful, right, for people to have like, like you said earlier, once you're you're forewarned.
00:51:48:12 – 00:51:50:14
Amanda
If we're more you're forearmed. What was it?
00:51:50:14 – 00:51:54:03
Marc
Yeah, yeah. To be forewarned is is to be programed. Yeah.
00:51:54:04 – 00:52:16:03
Amanda
Yes. Yes. So yeah I love it. Mark. This has been such a delightful almost hour with you. I love that we got this opportunity to connect this way for you and I to meet for the first time to share your story with this community, and that this is just the beginning, that we get to spend more time with you at the, Leo lunar cycle, and hopefully more than that.
00:52:16:05 – 00:52:21:10
Marc
I so looking forward to doing more with you. yeah. Loving and loving.
00:52:21:12 – 00:52:29:10
Amanda
Loving it. Is there anything else that you'd like to leave us with? Any any closing thoughts? as we embark on our ways.
00:52:29:12 – 00:52:52:07
Marc
Just, you know, cleansing with with, with, Saturn understanding of things. I, I get a bit angry when I, when I hear Saturn being called a bad guy, you know, being called a malefic, right? You know, because Saturn, Saturn is all about responsibility and hard work. But I want to end up by saying Saturn is not Saturn is a benefic.
00:52:52:07 – 00:53:15:06
Marc
I want to actually say Saturn is a benefic. Saturn wants the best for us. It truly does. It wants us to succeed. It wants us to rise to the top. You know, it wants us to leave here feeling great about our lives and great about ourselves. And, you know, it just means that to do that and to do that, well, to get the diploma or anything means we have to work at it.
00:53:15:08 – 00:53:42:04
Marc
And so, you know, we if we work at it and it can be a labor of love because it's supposed to be our lives are supposed to be labors of love. You know, we're supposed to be loving everything we do and the work we put into it. We're supposed to love that. So if you look at Saturn on the level of, you know, being a labor of love rather than, you know, a hard duty, you know, planet that has us always happy to work for work because you're not about that.
00:53:42:06 – 00:54:02:11
Marc
It's not about that. Saturn wants us to love our lives. Saturn wants us to love ourselves. Saturn wants us to succeed in every single thing we do. And so coming into alignment with Saturn, which is tying Saturn to actually saying, you can make this happen, it's in your hands, you are in, you are in the power seat of this.
00:54:02:13 – 00:54:13:19
Marc
So if you coming to alignment with that version of Saturn, then you want your life, your life all will take shape beautifully. It will. Yeah.
00:54:13:21 – 00:54:41:01
Amanda
Gosh Saturn gets a bad rap Saturn gets a bad from and think it's it's a tough job to, to to raise all of us and to help us realize how strong and capable and powerful we actually are. Yeah. So that's beautiful. Brilliant. Mark, thank you so much. Thanks to all of you for being curious and interested and asking the questions and hanging out with us and being a part of this, these conversations.
00:54:41:01 – 00:55:00:01
Amanda
Please leave any reflections. If you've loved meeting Mark, here's my just I have. Make sure you put that in the comments and I just love being able to share this work with you and being able to share brilliant astrologers with you. and I hope you enjoyed it as much as we did. All right everybody, thank you so much for being a part of our community.
00:55:00:01 – 00:55:02:01
Marc
And, thank you everybody.
00:55:02:03 – 00:55:07:12
Amanda
Thank you, Mark, and thanks to all of you for making astrology a part of your life. We'll catch you on the next episode.