Mental Health in Traditional Astrology
Astrologer Mychal Bryan & Amanda Walsh discuss what are some indicators of mental health issues in the natal chart and explore ways of mitigating them.
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🌑 How astrology can be a powerful tool in understanding and managing anxiety and depression, providing insights into personal triggers and coping mechanisms.
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🌓 Practical techniques and astrological guidance for fostering inner peace, emotional balance, and a deeper connection with oneself.
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Mychal: [00:00:00] I think that we can very well look at a person’s chart and assess whether or not that person. is afflicted, because this is the language that we find coming up within traditional astrology we can look at the person’s chart and see whether or not there are certain afflictions to the ascendant degree itself.
If there are certain afflictions to the ruler of the ascendant. These things can give us a very clear sense of whether or not that person is coming into this lifetime with a fundamental level of stability and groundedness that allows them to have a great amount of mental wellbeing within this life, because a person’s mental wellbeing is lessened.
based on how many of these afflictions we find. So for example,
if a person has Aquarius rising, for example, in traditional astrology, Aquarius is ruled by Saturn. If that Saturn is afflicted, say, [00:01:00] for example, Saturn is at 29 degrees of Aries. or Saturn is a 29 degrees of Leo or Saturn is a 29 degrees of cancer. These signs are all signs where Saturn is having a very difficult time.
In general so if we find somebody having the ruler of their ascendant at 29 degrees of the sign of its. fall or the sign of its detriment that can already signal us to letting us know that that person is coming into this lifetime with a certain level of discomfort or with a certain level of not really feeling as grounded or not really feeling as safe.
Hi, I’m Michael A. Bryan. Your astrology chart holds the key to finding personal fulfillment. When you were born, the universe cast a promise of what is yours and no one can take that away from you. I can’t wait to share more in the fulfillment workshop [00:02:00] of the Health, Wealth, and Fulfillment Workshop series.
In this workshop, we learn to decipher the universe’s promise to you and how you can fully lean into that to lead a much more fulfilling life. Join me at astrologyhub. com slash bryanworkshop.
Amanda: Well, hello everybody. And welcome to the astrology hub podcast. I’m so happy that you’ve decided to join us today to have this really important discussion with astrologer and author Michael Bryan. We’re going to be talking about the astrology of anxiety and depression. Specifically, we’re going to be exploring what does anxiety look like from an astrological perspective.
in the natal chart, what signatures may indicate a proclivity towards anxiety and or depression. We’ll be taking a specific look at Saturn and how the Saturn [00:03:00] placement in our chart could indicate constant challenge that also can create anxiety in people’s lives. But all of this with the intention to also provide Insights into your own chart into the charts of people that you work with, but also to provide some tools to help you better navigate these types of conditions.
So I’m so grateful that Michael has decided to join us here today. He’s an astrologer, a clinical hypnotherapist and a broadcast journalist. He’s been a lifelong study of the Western mystery tradition with a focus on Kabbalah. Tarot, Hermeticism, and Pre Socratic Philosophy. He’s the founder of the Oraculous School of Astrology, the author of Mastering Traditional Astrology, which I have my copy right here, Michael.
It’s incredible. Highly recommend you all to check this newly released book out. He’s also going to be one of three teachers in our upcoming [00:04:00] workshop series. He is joined by Georgia Stathis, Judith Hill, and Michael is going to be covering the Astrology of Fulfillment. How do we actually use our charts and what techniques can we use to find greater fulfillment in our lives?
George is going to be talking about how to use our chart to Find greater opportunities for wealth and abundance in our lives. And George is going to be covering our charts and health. So very excited that you are joining us for that series, Michael, and welcome back to the podcast.
Mychal: Thank you so much for having me here, Amanda.
Why Traditional Astrology?
Amanda: right. So let’s start with a question. We covered this last time you were on the podcast, which is. You are a leader in the field of traditional astrology. Why are you so passionate about teaching this? And if you are interested in checking that episode out, we will put it, we’ll put the link to it here in the video.
But tell us a little bit about this passion for traditional astrology. Why are you so passionate about [00:05:00] teaching it and, practicing it?
Mychal: Awesome, Amanda. I think that traditional astrology really sets the framework for what concrete astrology looks like. I’m very concerned in my astrological practice about talking about the concrete events that occur within people’s lives that cause them to experience life in the way that they do, or that causes them to show up in life in the way that they show up in life.
physically, mentally, emotionally, spiritually, and I think that traditional astrology really gives us a lot of great tools in order to call a spade a spade and in order to really speak about life as it is. And I think that that’s a very helpful thing for people because it gives them. The, the context for seeing their life as it is without necessarily any frills attached, but it gives us an honest assessment of life and from that honest assessment of life, we can then begin to do things to tangibly change [00:06:00] our lives and to tangibly move our lives.
in a more positive direction. So it’s not, you know, a lot of people often say that traditional astrology is very serious or, you know, it’s sometimes very, very dour or depressing or something to that effect. But I think that traditional astrology, and not even just traditional astrology, but I think any system of astrology that really focuses on speaking about concrete events within the lives of people is going to be an astrology that that shows you your life as it is.
And then from that information, you can do the most amount of good to either continue to, to expand the good that you experienced in your life, or to change something if it’s not working for you. Hmm.
Traditional Astrology, Psychology & Mental Health
Amanda: There is a conception that traditional astrology is more focused on things like predicting the future and that it doesn’t really go into the realms of psychology or mental health.
Mychal: true? It’s not [00:07:00] true because when we look at traditional astrology assessment, every traditional astrology chart assessment begins with the ascendant. And the ascendant from a traditional perspective, it represents the physical body that we have within this lifetime to move throughout the world.
But it’s also representing our mind and our soul and our psyche and how we’re psychologically oriented to life in general. And even as far back as… Claudius Ptolemy, even though he’s not the oldest traditional astrology source, but even as far back as Ptolemy, there’s this understanding of quote unquote diseases of the mind.
So things that affect us on a mental, from a mental perspective that prevent us from actually taking advantage of all that life has to offer. And so we see depression being spoken about within the sorts of language that they had at that time. We see anxiety being spoken about within the sorts of language that they had.
that time. And I think that traditional astrology really sets the [00:08:00] framework for psychological astrology to a very large degree. But instead of doing this thing where it’s only focusing on the psychology for the entire reading, A traditional astrology reading begins by assessing a person’s psychological constitution.
And then from there, showing how that person carries that psychological constitution into their financial life, into their familial life, into their relationship with their children, into their relationship with their spouse. So it’s a really comprehensive approach to understanding the psyche of a person than I dare say our modern idea of psychological astrology.
Amanda: Interesting. Thanks.
How the Ascendant and it’s Aspects Might Affect You
Amanda: Can you give us an example of a psychological constitution? Like how would you reflect a psychological constitution to a client, for example, and then apply that to their financial familial health, you know, the different areas
Mychal: of life. This is a great [00:09:00] question. I think that, so for example, because we’re going to be speaking about the Ascendant later, uh, Saturn in the Ascendant, for example, gives a person a very specific sort of outlook on life.
And I’m just going to make a broad generalization, we’re not looking at anybody’s chart, but very often when someone has Saturn rising that can create a person who feels a great sense of responsibility casted on their shoulders at a very early age. And as a result of that, they end up feeling as if they can’t take advantage of joyful living like everybody else around them, but they end up.
Uh, believing that their role or their only path of finding joy is to be responsible or to be the backbone of society or to be the pragmatic one or to be the one that keeps the container of life together for everybody else around them. And so that sort of person is going to approach their money in a very different way than the person who has Jupiter rising, for example, the Jupiter [00:10:00] rising person who everything is working out for them.
They are happy go lucky and they feel like even when they fall flat on their face, they still fall flat on their face in the field of possibilities that you, you know, the Jupiter rising person who has a completely different orientation to life and who just has this internal understanding that.
Everything’s always going to work out. They can always shoot their arrows of intention into the universe, because no matter if one arrow comes back, an hour is going to come back. So they just know that they, they never need to feel an overemphasis of really focusing on money that much within their lives, because they know that money will always be there.
Whereas the Saturn rising person doesn’t have that orientation. So the way how the Jupiter rising person is going to deal. With their finances in this lifetime is going to be very different from how the Saturn rising person deals with their finances or the Mars rising person deals with their finances or the [00:11:00] Mercury rising person.
So, I mean, it’s whenever we look at the chart, we really have to first understand who is the person who is in the chart and who is the person that we’re describing in that chart, because if you can understand the. soul and the psyche of the person, which is essentially, I keep using that language of soul, but in the medieval period, that’s how they refer to your personality.
So there wasn’t this, this personality as a concept, the personality, the non tangible part of us was called our soul. So within traditional astrology, we begin every chart reading with an assessment of your soul and psyche. Through the ascendant so that through that understanding of who you are, we can then know how are you going to correspond with money or how are you going to interact with money in this lifetime?
Are you going to be someone who’s constantly feeling as if you don’t have enough money, or are you going to be someone who feels such a deep spirit of blessedness that you don’t care what’s going on in your money house, because you know that everything is [00:12:00] going to panel for you in the end.
Amanda: And when you’re saying on the Ascendant, you mean the planet that rules the sign on the Ascendant?
You’re not necessarily mean like, do you mean a planet sitting there on the Ascendant?
Mychal: Yes. So when we, when we assess a chart traditionally, and particularly for me at my school, Heraclos, one of the systems I teach is how to assess the ascendant. And when we assess the ascendant, the first thing we look at is planets in the first house.
And not everybody has planets in the first house, but that’s one of the first steps we do. We do planets in the first house, aspects of the first house. Then the ruler of the first house and the reason why we follow that system is because the first house is you the the ascendant that line of the ascendant from a traditional perspective is you invade the astrology or geotish rather, they call the ascendant the login or the lagna.
And that word lagna means. that which [00:13:00] ties the soul down. And so when we think about the Ascendant from that perspective, the Ascendant is the glue that keeps our soul connected to our physical body in this lifetime. So even though we might have a planet that rules the Ascendant, that might be located somewhere else, that Ascendant itself from a traditional perspective is the actual Quantum of energy of who we are within this lifetime.
That ascendant is really where all of that universal potential is focused. So we want to focus on what’s going on with that ascendant, but also the aspects that that ascendant degree is receiving, because those are going to be very personal in terms of describing the personality and the. soul and the psyche of the person within this lifetime, but also planets in the planets in the first house.
And particularly if we have a planet conjunct the ascendant, that planet is going to show up powerfully within the actual personality and within the actual way that person [00:14:00] navigates themselves through the world.
How Depression & Anxiety Show Up in the Chart
Amanda: Okay, let’s bring this to then this conversation around mental health is specifically anxiety and depression.
What can we look at in the chart to show whether or not someone has a proclivity towards those things.
Mychal: This is a wonderful topic, Amanda, and I think just to, in all candor and to be honest, uh, you know, we’re not medical practitioners and we’re here as students of astrology who love astrology, and so anything that we say is really filtered through that lens of being people who love astrology and knowing that astrology has the ability to reflect life.
And the reason why I say that is because I find that Today, there’s a lot of people who practice or who gravitate towards medical astrology and who say stuff , you know, who say some really, um, big things, uh, that can feel a little bit too close to [00:15:00] diagnosing. So I don’t, so we don’t want to do that, but we do want to say from the perspective of, of unobserved practice of astrology, what does, or what do these things look like?
So that’s all I can bring. Um, I’m not a doctor. So the very first thing is in terms of in terms of of mental health, I think it’s a very interesting topic. And when we look at the chart, the first thing we want to do from that perspective of seeing someone’s, mental well being within their chart is we just really want to see If they look well, if that person looks well, because I think that a lot of the times our mental well being within our chart really corresponds with how grounded our chart seems or how grounded our chart allows us to be.
And I think that we can very well look at a person’s chart and assess whether or not that person. is afflicted, because this is the [00:16:00] language that we find coming up within traditional astrology, you know, afflictions to the rule of the ascendant, afflictions to the ascendant. I think that we can look at the person’s chart and see whether or not there are certain afflictions to the ascendant degree itself.
If there are certain afflictions to the ruler of the ascendant. And I think that these things can give us a very clear sense of whether or not that person is coming into this lifetime with a fundamental level of stability and groundedness that allows them to have a great amount of mental wellbeing within this life, because a person’s mental wellbeing is lessened.
based on how many of these afflictions we find. So for example, if a person, and I’m going to bring in Uranus, Neptune and Pluto as well, because I’m a traditional astrologer, but like many other traditional astrologers, I also use Uranus, [00:17:00] But for example, if a person is having Let me use one of the most traditional examples.
If a person has Aquarius rising, for example, in traditional astrology, Aquarius is ruled by Saturn. If that Saturn is afflicted, say, for example, Saturn is at 29 degrees of Aries. or Saturn is a 29 degrees of Leo or Saturn is a 29 degrees of cancer. These signs are all signs where Saturn is having a very difficult time.
In general, we know that Aries is the fall of Saturn. And we also know that Leo and cancer are the two detriments of Saturn. So if we find somebody having the ruler of their ascendant at 29 degrees of the sign of its. fall or the sign of its detriment that can already signal us to letting us know that that person is coming into this lifetime with a certain level of discomfort or with a certain [00:18:00] level of not really feeling as grounded or not really feeling as safe.
There is something about that degree, the 20. degree number 29. I was going to say the 29th degree, but that wouldn’t be accurate. Um, and I don’t want to get into the math of this, but the degree number 29 is actually the 30th degree of the sign, because we know that the signs start from zero. So zero is actually the first degree, which means that 29 is actually the 30th degree.
So there’s something about that 30th degree of a sign that corresponds with crisis in general. And whenever I have a chart where a person has the rule of their ascendant at 29 degrees of any sign, not the ascendant itself, but the rule of the ascendant at 29 degrees of any sign, that for me feels as if that person is coming into this world.
With a very strong orientation to crisis, [00:19:00] their life feels like crisis. The circumstances surrounding their life feels like crisis. They don’t feel as if they’re able to really find rest within this lifetime. It’s a very anxiety ridden degree. And there’s a number of reasons why that degree number 29 of any sign of the Zodiac is having that sort of, of.
impetus or influence surrounding it. And from a traditional perspective, our rationale is that the last degree of every sign corresponds with the terms of a bad planet. And by terms, The signs of the Zodiac are divided into five unequal segments, and those five unequal segments are called terms or bounds in traditional astrology.
And the last term or bound of every sign of the Zodiac is either going to be ruled by Mars or Saturn. Now, from a traditional perspective, Mars and Saturn [00:20:00] were considered to be destroyers of life. And there are some reasons for that as well, which make complete sense, but they’re thought of as being destroyers of life.
So if you have the ruler of your ascendant, the planet that is meant to govern your life within the final degree of a sign of the Zodiac that corresponds with a planet whose purpose is to destroy life. then clearly that’s going to create a greater sense of crisis or anxiety within this lifetime. So that’s one of the things.
Now let’s continue this example, say that we have that person having their rule of the ascendant at Aquarius rising and the rule of the ascendant at What is it? 29 degrees of Leo. If that planet, if that Saturn is retrograde, that’s going to further create a sense of anxiety and a sense of fear and a sense of stress and a sense of always being in a state of disaster preparedness or [00:21:00] disaster crisis management.
And the reason for that is because for any planet to be at the last degree of a fixed sign and retrograde At that degree is a very, it goes against the very nature of what it means to be fixed. So it’s kind of like I’m at the last degree of the sign. I’m standing on the edge of the precipice. I can see my doom.
I can see the fall. I can see, I can see the plunge, but something’s also pulling me backward. And so I have already. oriented myself in my life around this notion of plunging, but something’s also pulling me backward, but it’s not pulling me backward in a way that’s keeping me safe. It’s pulling me back in a way that it’s pulling me back and I’m moving forward and it’s pulling me back and I’m moving forward.
And if this thing were to let me go, I would surely die. So when we have the 29, when we have, once again, Saturn 29 degrees, Leo Aries cancer. 29. Well, let’s stick with the fixed [00:22:00] science because that’s what we were talking about earlier. So let’s say 29 degrees of, of Leo and it’s retrograde. That’s also another thing that’s saying that this is a person who’s probably coming into this life with a greater level of anxiety or a greater level of crisis orientation, or just not feeling comfortable in general.
Let’s stack it. If that person is also conjunct the South node at that degree. The South node is one of the things within the chart that is one of the cosmic toilet bowls of the universe. I was going to put those words, cosmic toilet bowl of the universe in my book, but then somebody told me that, Oh, Michael, this is a professional book.
You can write like that. So I took the cosmic toilet bowl out of the book. And I just changed it for some, some nicer South Node language. But I teach my students that the South Node is one of the cosmic toilet bowls of the universe. Neptune is another cosmic toilet bowl of the universe. The 12, 000 is another cosmic toilet bowl of the universe.
The Southern Bending. which is the first square to the south [00:23:00] node is also one of the cosmic toilet. There are many toilet bowls that exist in the universe, basically. But if a person is conjunct the south node as well, even if they’re at the last degree. I didn’t mention this before, but the last degree of any sign is called the Reic degree, and that word reic is coming from a Greek word, anta and reta, A N A R E T A.
Anta means destroyer, or it means great hunger. So that word aneratum means something that is consuming because it’s destroying. It’s a great hunger. It’s a, it’s a, it’s a point of, of loss basically. But if a person is anywhere within their chart and conjunct the south node, that’s one of the things that we look out for within the medical astrology context, that’s because the south node is a.
Destroyer of life as well. We know that the nodes are the head of the dragon is the north nodes of the south node is the tail of the [00:24:00] dragon. So the tail of the dragon corresponds with a sense of waste and wasting away. And when we have anything within our charts that is conjunct the south node, then it can manifest something that we don’t have access to in our lives or something that is representing a source of drain or a source of stress.
Thanks. Or a source of wastage or wasting away. If you have the ruler of your mother conjunct the South node, many times people who have that say that my mother never wanted kids. My mother said she didn’t want a boy, but she got, she didn’t want a boy, but she got a boy, she wanted the girl, but she got a son it’s, it’s always this complicated story with the mother.
Because when we have our mother conjunct our South node, there’s a wasting away of genuine. Care within our lives. So when I have my physical body conjunct the south node in the form of the ruler of my ascendant conjunct the south node, then that becomes my body is a place that feels unsafe because my body is a [00:25:00] thing that feels like it’s wasting away.
My body is what I feel like I’m having to sacrifice within this lifetime. I don’t feel comfortable within this skin. So that’s one more thing. So now we’re talking about Saturn ruling the Ascendant, 29 degrees, Leo, retrograde, conjunct the south node, all of these things being potentially challenging. And we could, we can continue to mount those challenges in a number of ways.
If we have that Saturn square Neptune, if we have that Saturn square Uranus, if we have that Saturn, um, In the sixth house, for example, if you have that Saturn in the eighth house, all of these things can create a scenario where a person is feeling unsafe within their bodies, unsafe within this world, and that can lead to having a deep rooted sense of anxiety within this lifetime.
Mychal: And there’s so much more I can say about it, but I’m going to let you, I’m going to let you.
The 29th Degree & More in Traditional Astrology
Amanda: I actually heard, and I’d love for you to clear this up, but I’ve heard the 29 degrees [00:26:00] as a degree of like mastery of a certain zodiac sign.
Like it’s the last degree. So it’s the like, okay, I’m here. This is my culminating moment with this sign. So I’m, I haven’t, so I haven’t heard of it in the way that you just described it. Are we talking about the same thing in a way, but just from with different language?
Mychal: You know, I think this is an interesting point and I think this is also the difference to a large degree between traditional astrology and more modern systems of astrology because traditional astrology doesn’t have this sign orientation.
So within traditional astrology, we don’t have the signs of the zodiac having this robust life of their own, as we find in modern astrology. So there is no notion of mastering the lessons of Taurus or mastering the lessons of Leo or mastering the lessons of Pisces, because from a traditional perspective, Pisces has no lessons.
to Master [00:27:00] Pisces is a section of the sky. That’s a very important section of the sky. And that section of the sky is where a particular planet might be at a particular point in time. And we care more about the interactions of planets with each other from a traditional perspective, not necessarily this.
language surrounding the sign of the Zodiac as this monolithic concept by itself. So, we are talking about the same thing, but from two completely different schools. So I could see that making sense within the modern context, where a lot of modern astrology tends to be very signs of the Zodiac based. But in traditional astrology, we care more about the planets and the life of the planets, and how the planets feel, and how they operate within different parts of different signs.
And in general, any planet at 29 degrees of any sign of the zodiac, one of the traditional aphorisms is a planet in the last degrees of a sign. So really 27, 28, 29 degrees, a [00:28:00] planet in the last degrees of a sign is like a man being thrown out of doors or like a man who is about to be Thrown out of his home or thrown out of his kingdom, basically.
So there’s this sense of exile that we associate with the last degrees of a sign, which makes sense because from a traditional perspective, beginnings and endings mean a lot to us. So this is also part of why the first house is the best house from a traditional perspective, because it represents the beginning.
Whereas the 12th house is the worst house from a traditional perspective, because it also represents an ending. And while we can walk. All of the wonderful ways, uh, you know, being in our 12, 000, such a wonderful thing and it, you know, all of the evolution, all of that stuff. It’s still kind of sucks from a, from any perspective, if you are really being honest with life.
And, and especially if you are in your 12, 000 and you’re being squared by Saturn squared by Uranus, Neptune, Pluto conjunct the South node retrograde in your 12, 000, [00:29:00] there’s nothing that feels good about it. And so I think that a lot of people who talk about the joys of the 12, 000. Don’t actually exist in their 12, 000.
So they don’t actually have that knowledge. But the, but the point is that the ending of things is, is a challenge for a lot of people. And the 12, 000 is a challenging place to be because it represents an ending, but so does the end of a sign. So, I mean, I mean, I can go on about this, but the point is that any planet within your chart that’s at 29 degrees of the sign that it’s in is representing a crisis in relationship to what that planet rules.
So if you have the rule of your second house at 29 degrees of something that can represent a crisis in relation to money, if you have the rule of your third house at 29 degrees of something that can represent a crisis in relation to your siblings, the rule of your fourth house at 29 degrees of anything to represent a crisis.
in relationship to your family or in relationship to your father specifically. So that degree, I think it’s very important for people to, you know, take this [00:30:00] and apply it for yourself and see for yourself, what do you have within your chart, um, at 29 degrees of something. And does that feel like an area within your life that you’re constantly having to renegotiate around and that you’re constantly feeling a sense of challenge or a sense of pressure around?
Because more than likely the answer to that question is yes.
Amanda: Okay, so a lot of these placements that you just talked about are indicators of potential sense of anxiety and depression. One of the reasons you gave for that is because the person feels unsafe, like they feel unsafe. In their skin or in the, in the world.
Mychal: Mm hmm. Well, one of the things I’d like to do if it’s okay, Amanda, is I just want to give some just some bullet points because I know we got very specific in terms of that specific example of the Aquarius and the Saturn and everything. So just just some bullet points in terms of what I look for, for this notion of [00:31:00] anxiety or depression showing up is definitely We associate Uranus with anxiety.
I mean, just hands down, within the 21st century, Uranus is a planet that we associate with anxiety. Neptune is a planet that we associate with depression, for example. Um, Mercury also, universally speaking, is representing the mind and how we orient our minds to life in general. So we do want to pay attention to Mercury as well.
And Saturn is also corresponding with depression to a very large degree. So, uh, just in terms of anxiety, if a person is having a very, and I’m going to do something which is kind of counter the astrology that I actually practice out loud. It’s the astrology that I practice in my brain, but it’s not necessarily what I teach.
Um, but if a person is having Uh, a mutable ascendant. So that means [00:32:00] they have Gemini, Virgo, Sagittarius, Pisces on their ascendant, and the ruler of their ascendant is also in a mutable sign, for example, and while in that mutable sign, the ruler of their ascendant is being squared by Uranus, that is one of the cornerstone signatures of anxiety to have a mutable ascendant, rule of my ascendant, also an immutable sign squared by Uranus could, or creating a square to Uranus could very well be something that creates a heightened sense of anxiety within a person’s life.
If a person has Mercury and Uranus in a hard aspect relationship, that can be a person who is processing a lot of information constantly. But who can’t really turn their brain off and as a result of not being able to turn their brain off, they are feeling jittery or they’re feeling like they can’t really settle or take a deep sense of rest or really calm down.
And so Mercury, Uranus [00:33:00] contacts could be anything from someone who just has an overactive brain. It could also be someone. Who is having too much mental stimulation and an over simulated nervous system in general, and that can cause a person to have an extra sense of anxiety within their lives. If Mars is a part of that, and they have a hard aspect combination of Mercury, Uranus and Mars, it can also do the same thing.
Sometimes this can manifest as migraines, especially if a person has mercury and Jupiter and hard aspect, and then that’s being squared by Mars or Uranus that can manifest as people who are blinding migraines blinding headaches, because once again there’s too much. Expansion of the brain. If we could call it that there’s too much going on within the mind and that’s causing that person to feel jittery or feel as if they can’t really settle and they can turn that brain off until the brain can short circuit and it can short wire sometimes and cause them to have debilitating migraines, debilitating headaches and other head [00:34:00] related issues.
Other nerve related issues specifically. So that’s the mercury side of things from a depression perspective. I think that, and I have something else to say about the anxiety, you know, a lot of people have uranus rising, uranus conjunct their ascendant. When you have uranus conjunct your ascendant, that’s one of the signs that says that the person comes from a very unstable family home.
And the reason for that is because the ascendant is a product of our horizon, where we are, our local horizon. So it has to do with our space and it represents where our local horizon is intersecting with the zodiac. So basically what part of the floor of where I am born crosses the zodiac at the moment of my birth, that’s what our ascendant is.
And so since the ascendant has to do with the floor of where we are, it also represents our environment growing up. So a lot of times people have uranus conjunct their ascendant and they come from a family of divorce. They come from a military [00:35:00] family where their family kept on moving around a lot. So they never feel really secure within this lifetime.
They come from a family where. They just were never really given the opportunity to feel safe within their physical container. And the same is truthful if a person has that uranus conjunct their IC, conjunct the fourth house cusp. Once again, it’s that I could never really take rest because our home kept moving.
We moved 100 times by the time I was 15. We kept, we were always on the road. I never felt secure. And as a result of that, now I don’t know how to form. Real relationships with people because my orientation to life is that I’m always moving. And so I never really know when I’m going to move again. And so that makes me, that makes it difficult for me to find intimacy.
That makes it difficult for me to really have friends. And that makes it difficult for me to trust that this home is going to be there in the morning when I wake up. So all of those things can tie into the anxiety side of things now from the depression side of things, we can swap out that [00:36:00] Uranus with Saturn, for example, and I gave one such an example earlier, but also Neptune, a person having Neptune conjunct their fourth house cusp.
can be that once again there was something within my home that felt like it was wasting away or my home didn’t feel supportive or my home felt nebulous or I couldn’t really feel a sense of security within my home environment and so now I’m trying to move through life and find a sure sense of where to root myself within life but nothing really feels certain because my base So very often when we have issues in our fourth house, especially planets conjunct the fourth house cusp, those things affect and impact our entire life because the fourth house is the basement of your chart.
And if something is wrong with the fourth house, Then not then, but if something is wrong with your 4th house, it takes a lot of work in life to turn that story around because our 4th house is really how we root ourselves to rise in life. So [00:37:00] that’s a couple more things in terms of just, you know, giving people more specific tools to begin looking at.
Depression as an experience, even if we’re not looking at depression as condition, what does depression, what could depression as an experience look like within the life of a person? And so we helped that through those examples I just gave.
The Direct Effect Planet Location
Amanda: if people have these placements, does this mean they’re going to deal with anxiety and or depression throughout their whole life?
Or will there be periods of time where it’s more highlighted? And less
Mychal: highlighted. This is a great question. And I think that the truth about natal astrology is that when you have a planet in a house that represents your experience at the beginning portion of your life. And so this is something that is known and said within traditional astrology that determination by location [00:38:00] is immediate.
And what that means is that if I have a planet physically located in a house, my experience of that house is going to be primarily colored by that planet. That’s going to be the first thing I experienced about that house. So for example, let’s say you have the second house and you have Uranus, Neptune, the South node, and Saturn all in your second house.
But the rule of your second house is mercury in Virgo elsewhere, but you, but your actual experience of your second house, when you look at your chart is Uranus, Neptune, South node, and Saturn in that second house, that says to us that no matter how good the rule of the second house is doing your experience of your money.
Coming into this lifetime is going to be primarily characterized by the planets that you have in that second house because determination by location is immediate. As soon as you open your eyes in the morning, the first thing you see is going to be that, but particularly [00:39:00] in the early stages of your life.
Importance of Your First Saturn
Mychal: And by the early stages of your life, I dare say, by 35 years old, your chart, as it looks, is is relevant or valid up until the time you’re 35 years old. And then those houses start to correspond more with the rulers of those houses from 35 onward. So if you have Neptune in your fourth house, and that has given you a great amount of.
depression regarding your family story, and that’s made you feel as if you don’t have a family, and that’s made the story of family in your life be a source of disappointment, then that represents the earlier portion of your life. And I think that that’s one of the great things about astrology in general, that many of the things that we see within our chart, and I dare say all of the things that we see within our chart, we go through those things.
By the time we’re 30 and the reason why I’m using 30 as a frame of reference is because [00:40:00] it takes relatively roughly 30 years for Saturn to go across every single part within our natal chart. And when Saturn goes over every part of our natal chart, Saturn brings out the potential or the promise or the destiny that we hold within our lives in relation to that part, which is a part of why I don’t give readings to minors.
Because when, and I’m saying this as someone who’s only just turned 31 yesterday, well not yesterday, but I only just turned 31, but I don’t give readings, and I don’t want to get cancelled for this, but I don’t give readings to people in their 20s for the most part. And a big part of that is because You haven’t experienced the fullness of your natal promise yet.
You haven’t experienced everything that your natal child has to give you. The entire story of your destiny hasn’t concretized itself through one cycle [00:41:00] of life yet. And we, we judge these cycles of life based on cycles of Saturn. So if you haven’t experienced the fullness of that natal story of that natal destiny, I don’t really feel secure giving you a reading about your natal promise because you haven’t even experienced the fullness of it yet.
So I might give you a reading and you might say, Oh no, that’s wrong. But that’s because you haven’t experienced that part of your life yet. Come back to me when you’re 31 years old. Let’s have another conversation. So 30 is a major. Passing point. And after that 30, we have the ability to do the next 30 years of our lives in a more evolutionary way.
We have the ability to establish a new sort of momentum for our lives in the next 30 year cycle. But there’s a problem. And the problem is that a part of the first 30 years of our life is that we have been gaining momentum and there’s nothing more damning for a person than the [00:42:00] momentum they build behind something.
And that momentum becomes largely what we call our fate. Or what we call our destiny. And so people say, Oh, traditional astrology is so cruel, so mean, so whatever, but it’s not that the traditional astrology is fatalistic. Is that traditional astrology describes our lives when we aren’t exercising any conscious ability to be different.
And for the most part, the reason why you can get a reading from someone and it sounds so much like you is because that reading describes who you are when you’re not exerting any efforts to be different. And all of us, we have that baseline momentum that we established in the first 30 years of our life.
And that baseline momentum became everything we know about ourselves. So when we have our Saturn return, we say, okay, I’m going to do the next 30 years differently, but we find the next 30 years following the same pattern as the 30 years before, because we’ve established such a strong momentum. And we, you know, I think it’s [00:43:00] crazy how, how much we doubt the power of that momentum and the power of familiarity.
We love doing things that feel familiar, even when we know those things are wrong for us. So the point is we can all change our lives. But the effort necessary to change our lives is something that is larger than I think a lot of us realize.
Amanda: Such a fascinating perspective. You know, I talked to a lot of astrologers all the time, and some of these things that you’re sharing, it’s like, wow, I’ve literally never heard that before. I’ve, I’ve actually never met an astrologer who doesn’t do readings for anyone under the age of 30. I, I, when you said you were going to say like under 18 or maybe under, you know, but under 30, it’s like, wow.
And it’s interesting because. I think most of us can agree that, that after age 30, it, it things, well, I [00:44:00] mean, this may, may, may not be true. Some people have a lot of complication in their life early, but like the compounding effects, I guess, of decisions. And I think this is what you’re talking about with momentum.
That there’s like this compound effect of the, of the path of the trajectory we’ve been on. And yes, there does require a lot more effort to undo those patterns. I always think of them as like grooves and we’ve made like really deep grooves and certain ways that we’ve done things. And so yes, to undo that, like, first of all, requires a ton of awareness.
Second of all, then there’s a lot of work to, to rewire our, our tendencies, our knee jerk reactions, our everything. So, wow, interesting. Oh, okay. With all of that,
Tools to Alleviate Depression & Anxiety
Amanda: so you went through a lot of different ways that we can look in the chart and see a proclivity towards. Then there’s this whole experiencing one cycle of life perspective.
Then there’s the, okay, now we’re in this [00:45:00] next cycle of life. We do have this proclivity towards certain things. When you say we can change our life or we can evolve and we can apply our consciousness to actually create a different experience. How do we do that? Like what, what, let’s just, just give me like a few bullet points.
I know that’s a huge question, but like what, what, what would you say to a client who’s like, okay, but yeah, I don’t want to live the rest of my life in anxiety and depression. I’d like to make changes. I’d like to live differently. How would you
Mychal: advise them? I love the language you used earlier about the groove and about how deeply we dig these pathways within ourselves and within our lives.
And I think about it like driving a car. For example, in the beginning of learning how to drive a car, we’re probably all a little bit apprehensive. And then we come to a place where we can pretty much drive in our [00:46:00] sleep. Hopefully you’re not driving in your sleep, but we all come to a place where that becomes second nature.
And I think that because being who we are. Is both our first nature and our second nature that is a part of what makes it so difficult for us to change that pattern and it doesn’t matter the sort of experience we’ve had, we could have had amazing experiences and that becomes the pattern that becomes the groove we expect amazing, we expect awesome, we expect wonder, we expect excitement because that has been the groove and the patterning of our lives.
And so that becomes our expectation. But very often when we have a life where we expect certain things based on our previously established momentum, that momentum and that expectation also becomes a projection into the future that we end up fulfilling. So we expect to be in relationships where people are [00:47:00] going to lie to us based on us being in relationships that were dishonest in the past. And then we find ourselves in a relationship where no one’s lying to us at all.
And so now we create the pattern of lying to that person because we expect that lies and deception It’s going to be a part of our love life. And if it’s not coming from the person, then we, then something within us says, well, Hey, you know, this feels too safe, you know, go and do something stupid that you then have to cover up or that you then have to hide because the momentum of your life can’t allow you to know that there are healthy relationships that exist.
And I’m not saying that this and I’m using a very big example and probably a very extreme example, but I think that even when we look at the micro cycles of our lives, we can see that who we are today is really a product of a very specifically established momentum. You know, we, you, Amanda, were supposed to be who you are today based on who you were when you were 10 years old, based on who you were when you were 12 [00:48:00] years old.
And as you look back at your life, and as you look back at all of the strange things and all of the strange connections you’ve made within your life, everything that you’ve done has amounted to you now doing what you do today. And so all of the things that we do, it becomes this web of entanglement. And I think that astrology is wonderful because it gives us the ability to study that web of entanglement.
And very often when we study the web of entanglement of our lives through astrology, we realize that a lot of the things that we keep tripping ourselves upon in the future are based on patterns that we established in the past. And when we can stop and realize that that is where it’s coming from, then the astrology becomes a platform for self study.
And we realize, wow, you know, I’m referring to this thing with anxiety already, but it’s because of how I’ve always responded to this thing. So I have the ability now to realize that I don’t have to be anxious about this thing anymore. I can change the patterning surrounding how I [00:49:00] respond to this thing.
And that concept of change… could be frightening because anxiety, no matter how, no matter how debilitating that might feel for you, anxiety has become your familiar home. And so the thought of not responding with anxiety becomes not only absurd, but it becomes deeply frightening because we’re so accustomed to responding to life in that way.
So I think that astrology gives us the means of studying ourselves. And if we can study ourselves, we can step away from our charts long enough to realize that we can create space and to realize that that space actually does give us freedom. And to realize that the freedom that that gives us is the freedom to choose.
We can choose to change our momentum. We can choose to respond differently. But we can’t actually choose to do that if we’re still on the [00:50:00] hamster wheel without realizing that we’re on the hamster wheel. wheel at all. And astrology gives us the ability to step off of the hamster wheel, to assess the wheel, to realize that there are cracks in the wheel, and to realize that we actually do have a choice in terms of how we relate to that wheel, only if we choose to take that path.
Amanda: Wow, Michael, amazing. I often, one way that I get aware of, of those types of situations where it’s like, wow, I always respond this way is, well, first of all, I feel like our bodies give us a lot of feedback, you know, the emotional response, whether that’s anger or depression or, or anxiety, you know, whatever that emotional response, but then it’s like, okay, wow, I’ve been in this situation before.
I usually do this. You know, whatever this is, I’m just going to try something different. Because the truck, even if the trying something different doesn’t necessarily resulted anything better. [00:51:00] It’s, it’s not that same group, it’s, it’s a new pathway, and that new pathway could result in a new and an entirely new response that is much more productive and much more life affirming and you know all the things.
So I love what you just said and that for you, astrology is the kind of the main tool in there because I guess it could be any tool that gives us more self awareness for us. Obviously we’re inclined towards astrology, but, uh, but, but a tool, something that gives you that level of self awareness to be come aware of the pattern, to become aware of the hamster reel so that you have choice.
So you, you fund you at the end of the day. Fundamentally, do believe that at some point we have a choice. is what
Mychal: I’m hearing from you. I believe that fully with all my heart and I believe that those of us who practice astrology have [00:52:00] more access to that choice than people who don’t practice astrology because and like you said earlier you alluded to it that it’s not just astrology it’s anything that gives us the ability to slow down and step away from the momentum of life long enough to That we do have choice and to realize that everything that occurs within the context of our lives occurs within a framework of decision making.
So everything that we’re doing is arising out of a decision that we make. And so we do have choice. And as astrologers, I don’t want to say we have more choice, but I think as astrologers, we have the gift of clairvoyance. And I don’t mean psychic clairvoyance in a sense, which it probably is a psychic clairvoyance, but I mean clairvoyance in so far as clairvoyance means clairvision.
We have the gift of clear seeing and we have the gift of hopefully being able to clearly see ourselves and [00:53:00] from that we can change if we want to and I, I, I say change and I think it’s easy to say change because once again, saying that, oh, we could just change. It doesn’t really begin to acknowledge the weight and the gravity of the momentum of being who we are.
As we are at this moment, and that requires a lifetime to undo that, you know, we took 30 years digging that groove. So I mean, it’s probably going to take another 30 years to undig that groove. I have an aunt, who is a part of a particular spiritual community, and that’s rooted in yogic philosophy, and She continues.
She’s in her at the time when she and I had this conversation. She was in her late 50s, and she would just keep on saying things like Jesus, Jesus, like, you know, we’re from Jamaica. And [00:54:00] so we we Jesus is like a part of our colloquialism. Oh, Jesus. And, you know, like, it’s just always in the language, basically.
And so she said to, I said, Hey, you know, you always mentioned
Jesus, and this thing is so deeply a part of your language, and I know that within the larger spiritual context of who you are, that’s not who you are. Like, like, why is that? And she said, Well, you know, Mike, it took me 30 years of being in that.
And it’s probably going to take me 30 years to get that fully out of my system. And she wasn’t even speaking about it from an astrological perspective. She was just talking about how long she was a Christian, you know, how long that was a very big part of her experience. And I had never known her to go to church.
I had never known her to even be remotely related to church, but there was just something in her language that was still so heavily church based. And she said it took her 30 years to be in it. It’s [00:55:00] probably going to take her 30 years to completely rid herself of that through conscious daily practice and awareness, and I think for all of us, we have the same sort of dilemma, you know, we’ve established a very particular momentum in our lives.
And if we’re willing to study. If we’re willing to study that momentum, and I think this is the most beautiful part of astrology, because astrology allows us to study the momentum that has made us who we are. And if we’re willing to use our astrology as a means of studying that momentum, then we can unlock truly powerful and magical experiences within our lives.
But we have to be willing to slow down. We have to be willing to, to, to come off of the hamster wheel long enough so that we aren’t Reacting from that unconscious programming of 30 years of preconditioning,
Amanda: Michael, you clearly have the gifts of clear seeing and also clear speaking and clear thinking, [00:56:00] because just the way that you, you took us on that journey and I could feel myself in the middle being like.
Oh man, are we doomed? Like, is there any way out of this thing? And then to just bring it here to this, this place of definite hope and inspiration. And, um, I, I’m super grateful if you’re with me on this, that you’ve just been through a journey and you love the way Michael teaches and speaks and the perspective.
Please check out the workshop that he is going to be teaching with us in the fall. It is going to be amazing. And we’re going to be taking a lot of these things that we’re talking about here today, but applying it to experiencing greater fulfillment in our lives. How do we use our astrology chart to, to see where the promise for fulfillment is to make choices towards fulfillment.
Mychal on His Upcoming Workshop
Amanda: Michael, do you want to say anything about the workshop that you’ll be teaching in the fall?
Mychal: Definitely. I think that the workshop is really based on the same idea that we were flashing out today [00:57:00] and this, I love the thought of being able to speak about fulfillment because my whole thing is that we’re here to fulfill our natal promise.
And I try to align my clients around understanding what their natal promises and to give them a sense of what is the container within which they’re meant to live and breathe and have their being. What is that Petri dish that they’re meant to expand in and experience the fullness of their lives. And that’s really what this workshop is going to be about giving people the tools to see exactly.
who they are within their charts to see how they’re coming to life, how they’re showing up in life, and also to see how they can use the tools that they’ve come to life with for the purpose of creating a greater sense of expansion within the container of their natal promise. Because as you know, Amanda, I’m a very destiny based person.
I’m a very fate based person. So for me, [00:58:00] there is this container of our natal destiny that we can’t get away from and we really shouldn’t try to get away from it because that is what is beautiful and what is individualized about all of our lives. The fact that I have a destiny that is different from yours, you have a destiny that is different from mine.
And so this workshop is really about giving people tools to see and identify Their own destiny within their natal charts and how they can become okay with that and through being okay with that, how they can use that as a template to further enrich their lives.
Amanda: So exciting. And Michael’s going to be joined by Judith Hill and Georgia Stathis.
So we have three all star teachers. I mean, like literally cream of the crop teachers who are helping you look at your chart and, and get clues and cues for the different areas of your life. So we have Georgia covering wealth and, and. Um, wealth with a [00:59:00] broad definition, not just money, but wealth, like the true definition of wealth.
Um, we have George, uh, Judith talking about health, so indicators in your chart, and based on a lot, he’s, she’s going to use the sun sign. Um, and really help you understand, um, what the spectrum of health opportunities and challenges may exist for you and how to work with that. And then we have Michael rounding it out with fulfillment.
So it’s going to be amazing. And hopefully you all will join us. It’s
Amanda: astrology hub. com slash workshop. You can choose to either just join Michael’s workshop. Or get the whole series. And when you do get the whole series, you get one workshop free. So it’d be kind of crazy not to just do all of them. You get, you get lifetime access to them.
So if you don’t have time to dive into all of it right now, it’s okay. You can tune back in later. Um, but check it out again,
Amanda: astrology. com slash workshop.
Amanda: Um, Michael, you’re amazing. Like [01:00:00] every single time I engage with you, I’m just like, what the what, if you’re me and you, you end up at the end of a conversation or a podcast with Michael going, how can I like, learn what he knows and be somehow, I highly encourage you to check out his book.
Um, am I doing this right? Can I see it? Yes. Traditional astrology. Um, it’s so good. And, and I was telling Michael, like there are, this is kind of embarrassing to admit, but there’s really not a whole lot of astrology books like this, like that are this thick that I’ve ever even like gotten far beyond the first few paragraphs because it just becomes so dense and heavy for me.
I don’t know what it is, but I’m just not wired for that. But not this one in this book. I feel like it’s just like listening to Michael on a podcast. I can hear him in my head, speaking in the way that he speaks on the podcast. So if you’d like the way he speaks, check out this book, it is so good. And it’d [01:01:00] be really cool to read the book and then.
have the class. And I know like the first part of the book is more sort of like background theory and all that. And then it’s more of like a textbook where you’re going to like refer back to that and study it a bazillion times through the first part so that you can, um, you know, be ready for class. And Michael, um, Do they get that on Amazon?
Is that the
Mychal: best place to get your book? They can get it on Amazon and definitely read the first chapter. What is astrology? And, and, you know, I’ve had, I’ve had so much fun writing different parts of that book. I, regardless of what I say in the daytime about the signs of the zodiac, I have written. in an entire section in there about all 12 signs of the Zodiac.
So if you only want to buy the book to read about the signs of the Zodiac, then be my guest. If you want to buy the book to read about the 12 houses, be my guest. If you want to buy it just to read the first chapter, what is astrology? I think that there’s a pocket within that for [01:02:00] everyone and you don’t have to read it cover the cover.
You could use it as a reference book, but I think that that definitely is a wonderful book for people to have in terms of the upcoming workshop. Because it gives you an insight into my approach to astrology in general, and definitely into my understanding of the planets, because I am going to be basing a lot of what I teach based on the planets.
Because I know that you’re going to be getting the signs of the zodiac from someplace else, so I want to give you what do these planets have to offer us within this lifetime.
Amanda: I am so honored that you are teaching here with us, that you are spending more and more time with us here at Astrology Hub. You are an incredible, brilliant, like how are you 31?
Just truly brilliant. I mean, it shows you that like some people come in, like you obviously came in with some sort of wiring towards. Brilliance. And it’s so evident. So thank you.
Mychal: And thank you. Well, well, thank you so much, Amanda. And like I, like I told you, Astrology Hub was the first place to ever give me a platform to teach.[01:03:00]
And I will always remember that for the rest of my life. And so anything you ever need, please feel free to reach out to me because you have a special place in my heart. Oh my
Amanda: gosh. Lucky me. Lucky us. Okay. All right, everybody. Thank you so much for joining us for this episode. I hope that you found it helpful, useful.
I hope that you feel like you have some more tools. I hope that you’re inspired to learn more because there’s always more. But thank you for joining us for this episode. And thank you for being a part of our community. As always, thank you for making astrology a part of your life. We’ll catch you on the next episode.