Why Are People Afraid?

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Astrology & Obsession

Join us for a comprehensive and enlightening live session where esteemed astrologer, Rick Levine, and Astrology Hub founder, Amanda Walsh, will tackle the significant question, “Why Are People Afraid?

On this episode, you’ll learn…

๐ŸŒ’The danger of labeling someone else’s passion or obsession
๐ŸŒ‘ The importance of awareness and empowerment when engaging with astrology
๐ŸŒ˜ The ethics of astrology and the astrologer’s job to empower their clients

๐Ÿชย Find your personal celestial guide with the Ruling Planets for Unruly Times course. Learn how your ruling planet influences life, personality, challenges and opportunities!ย ๐Ÿ”ฎ


The Planets Course with Christopher Renstrom main course graphic 2 2


[00:00:00] Amanda: All right. Well, hello everybody. Welcome to the Cosmic Connection. It’s so great to be here with you all and to be here with our cosmic navigator, Rick Merlin Levine. And today we’re gonna be talking about when astrology becomes an obsession and really exploring this line between like a healthy engagement with astrology as a tool.

[00:00:25] And then that line for when it becomes it’s use, it’s, it’s using you like you’re no longer using it, it’s using you. And so it’s out of balance. And I was just telling Rick that I recently met someone who said, you know, I was so into astrology for 10 years. You know, every person I met, I would run their chart.

[00:00:44] I, I was in, you know, I was in the horse post every day. I was looking at everything. And then she got to a point where she’s like, and then I had to completely denounce it and just like, Completely walk away from it because it, it wasn’t healthy anymore. So I would, I was thinking about this and I was thinking, God, I wonder what Rick would say about this.

[00:01:03] And so here we are having this conversation. And

Rick’s Past Relationship with Astrology and What He’s Learned

[00:01:05] Amanda: Rick, where do you wanna start with this?

[00:01:08] Rick: Just that I’ve had a 55 year unregulated obsession

[00:01:18] that I actually, just to get this off to a, uh, a, a right start. In my mid thirties. I mean, I kind of fell into astrology in my late teens and by my early twenties, everything in my life in some way, had to be fit around my astrology obsession. Where I was really mostly at that time in learning mode.

[00:01:46] But. After I began seeing clients doing charts even, I moved to Southern California and between just needing to cope with life and, and have family and whatever, I began questioning, you know, maybe, maybe I’m so clever that I could just make all this shit work and maybe it’s not really based on reality.

[00:02:14] You know, I mean, I have a scientific logical background and you know what, if I’m just really like everyone else just getting sucked into this and making it all up, and I ended up putting all of my astrology books, computer programs, calculation software, ephemeras in boxes in a garage where they stayed for nearly two years.

[00:02:38] I did no astrology, none. Wow. None. Yeah. And and, and I think I’ve told bits of this story before on online, and that is during a time when many years prior, I assumed, I assumed would be like an amazing, opening experience in my life. I have a handful of planets in mid Aries, Rine, Pluto in mid Leo, and I have mid Sagittarius descendant, which means that if you use that descendant point, I have a grand fire trine with five planets and the descendant.

[00:03:15] And when Uranus was moving through Sagittarius, I knew. It was going to hit my descendant and complete a grand rine, and I’m a Uranian kind of guy, and I thought, wow, this is gonna be the greatest time in my life. And I had a roller skating accident that basically debilitated me. And, um, and I, I, I mean, I lost use of my right arm, right hand.

[00:03:39] Um, it went on for months. I was on disability. I couldn’t use my right hand, so I, I couldn’t shave, I couldn’t brush my teeth. I, I’m a real right-handed left brain or was until then person, um, couldn’t eat soup, couldn’t zip up my pants. I mean, it was, it was really awful. And it was like, at first it was like, oh, no big deal.

[00:04:00] It’s an accident. I’ll just deal with it. But it lingered. And it lingered. And during that period of time, I began going, taking those boxes out of the garage. I had time, I wasn’t going to work fighting LA traffic every day and dealing with running, you know, um, an, an operation where I had 25 people responsible to me and blah, blah, blah, blah.

[00:04:24] And I started, um, opening up boxes of my music and poetry and astrology and stuff. And to this day, uh, the, the leftover from that accident is my right hand, this knuckle. When I make a fist, that knuckle doesn’t move. Cuz it was basically lost in that, you know, I don’t know if I can’t twist it around in a way to, to see it, but, but this knuckle’s gone.

[00:04:53] Mm-hmm. And it’s my physical reminder that I cannot take that stuff and put it away forever. Ah, because be, because it took that Uranian lightning strike of an accident or event, which was life shattering at that time. That actually, it was almost like the cosmos was saying, you are no longer in control of your life.

[00:05:22] You’ve got yourself into this kind of straight jacket, you know, corporate existence. And if you are not paying attention to what you really need to do, we’re gonna, we’re gonna make it happen for you. And, and now having said that, the point is that I understand the obsession. With astrology, and I would like to say that I have a healthy balance between it and the rest of my life.

[00:05:49] And compared to some people I probably do. And yet it, you know, it’s everything in my life. Although I should also say that unlike many astrologers, I, how do I wanna say this? I’ve, I’ve, a friend that I’ve known for 30 years. Who, when we first met, and the, you know, in the discussion in a group was o’ Rick’s an astrologer, and everybody said their birthdate.

[00:06:18] And then I said to this guy, Fred, so what’s your, what’s your birthdate? And he goes, I don’t, I, you know, I, I don’t share that with anyone. And he is been a friend of mine for 30 years and I’ve never asked him again, and he’s never volunteered, and I don’t care. It doesn’t impact the relationship that I have with him.

[00:06:36] And this is my, my kind of saving grace in with astrology is that as much as I think it’s an amazing tool, it’s not a required tool to live life, but it certainly can help one manage it better. And I think that the idea of people becoming obsessed with astrology is people become obsessed with, with sho and Buddhism chanting na, they become in, they co they become, obsessed with Scientology.

[00:07:11] They become obsessed with Jesus Christ. They become obsessed with anti this and pro that they become, we we’re humans when we, when we stumble on something that is either, Really eye opening and attractive in whatever way it is. Whether it’s a, an idea or a person that we, that we meet, or we become totally, obsessed in avoiding something, whether it’s an idea or a person we meet or a person that represents some idea that we hate.

[00:07:44] We become obsessed. So I don’t think astrology is any different there. It has different ramifications though. So let,

[00:07:51] Amanda: let me make sure I understand the timeline. So you, you, you fell in love with astrology. It became everything and in your life, and your whole life was around it. And then why did you, why did you say, okay, I’m gonna put everything in, in the boxes and put everything away.

[00:08:09] And, and in those two years, is that when you sort of like got a little bit off track and did the whole corporate

[00:08:14] Rick: thing and then you Well, I was already doing the corporate thing a bit, but I was in some way kind of having some somewhat of a balance. Okay. And, and I, and I was able to do the corporate thing and yet still, you know, do some, do enough astrology that it was satisfying.

[00:08:34] Yeah. And at some point in time living in Los Angeles, you know, with, you know, family and, you know, uh, house and, you know, and car in garage cars and whatever, it was like the, it just became. Harder to find time to even just keep your life together. But on top of that, I really for years had gradually, you know, questioned, not that astrology works, but why it works, how does it work?

[00:09:06] And maybe it doesn’t work and maybe we’re just making all this up and maybe even if we’re not making it all up, maybe it’s just a curious distraction. And you know, and it just basically, it was almost like no time for this. I gotta grow up, I gotta get real. And it just got gradually. You know, I mean, it wasn’t like one day.

[00:09:28] I, I mean, I’ll tell you a story about someone who many people might know through his books. He, passed away about, gee, I don’t know, maybe about 15 years ago or so. So, an astrologer who I’m privileged to say was a good friend of mine, a guy named Robert Blaske, who wrote a number of really excellent books and his legacy is, is, enshrined by the number of recordings at that time, audio rather than video recordings.

[00:09:56] And, and Robert was, a very intense character and very, very, one of the smartest, most incisive astrologers, you know, in thi in, in incisive thinking astrologers that I’d ever met. And, um, and Robert was brought up Catholic and, um, at two times in his life, He actually got it. That astrology was satanic and burned, burned, put on fire, burned all of his astrology books and said, I’m, this is the, this is Satanic work of the devil and I’m not doing this and I can’t, it’s against everything and blah.

[00:10:39] And two times he did that three times. He brought that material back into his life and acknowledged his obsession, which we’re all thankful for.

[00:10:50] Amanda: Wow. And it’s interesting, the person that I met who was explaining to me that they were really into astrology for 10 years, and then they got, I, I, I’m, I’m guessing the person’s really Christian.

[00:11:01] She said she got a message that she needs to commune directly with God, that astrology was creating sort of like a inter, like a overlay between her and God and that direct connection.

[00:11:16] Rick: Oh, you mean like the church does with priests? Yeah,

[00:11:21] Amanda: yeah. However, I don’t think she was saying, and so I need to go through crease instead.

[00:11:25] I think she was, she was getting the encouragement that like, There needs to be more of a direct line. But what what was interesting for me is it was kinda like, well, but it still is a direct line cuz

[00:11:35] Rick: I, I don’t know. It, it doesn’t, one of the mo, one of the most interesting books that Bucky Fuller Buckminster, our Buckminster Fuller wrote was a collection of po his poems and essays and the lead, what piece in that book was a kind of a, an essay poem called No More Secondhand God.

[00:11:54] Mm. I mean the concept is very brilliant, but unlike a lot of other systems of thought, astrology in its purest sense, sense is not a secondhand God. It is basically a way for us to engage with what’s considered to be the divine proportion, the, those realms, which you, you gotta understand. That until the 17th century, until Johannes, Kepler came along, it was considered that, that humans were on the earth and everything in the heavens was, was, uh, was divine, was, was not within human realms.

[00:12:40] And although we credit Kepler with coming up with the three laws of planetary motion, and he did, and of course he did that because as an astrologer he needed to know where the planets were. But modern science just says he was the, you know, father of modern astronomy and, and did that breakthrough math.

[00:13:00] But the, the real fact behind it is that he was the first human who actually created a way for human thought rationalization mechanics to explain or to work with those things that were previously. Divine God-like. And so we may be a little bit off track with the obsession, but the fact of the matter is that as astrologers, we are simply engaging in what’s in the Lord’s prayer.

[00:13:35] Um, and it amazes me that how many people recite the Lord’s prayer even daily, and yet don’t believe what’s in it because they say it is done on earth as it is in heaven. And that’s all astrology is, is it’s done on earth as it is in heaven. And if you consider God to be in the divine proportion or in the heavens, well then astrology is a way, one way, not the only way of interacting directly with that energy, that concept, that idea.

[00:14:10] Hmm.

Unhealthy Territory of Astrolgy

[00:14:11] Amanda: Okay. Question for you. In your decades of being engaged with astrology, do you see it go into what you would consider unhealthy territory in terms of like it ruling people’s lives to a point where it’s, it’s paralyzing or it’s somehow unhealthy? And if, if so, what have you seen sort of inclines people towards that, like crossing that line?

[00:14:38] Yeah.

[00:14:38] Rick: Okay. First of all, just a clarification. You said in your years of astrology, have you seen it go cross that line? It doesn’t cross that line, right? We cross that line. Absolutely. So it’s not, it’s not the body of information, and that’s really all astrology is, is a body of information. Mm-hmm. Now people, you know, I, I, I, I think that, um, the bumper sticker, you know, that said, um, you know, I love Jesus Christ.

[00:15:09] It’s his followers that scare the hell out of me. You know, it’s like we can take a good teaching, we can take a concept, and as humans, we, through our obsessions, through our desires, through our fears, we can turn it into something that it really isn’t. And yes, people do that with astrology on all sides of, I guess I was gonna say on all sides of the spectrum, I think a spectrum can only have two sides, but you know what I mean.

[00:15:43] In, in, in, in many, many, many different ways. We humans, um, use astrology to do irrelevant or. Negative stuff. And in fact, going back to Johannes Kepler, who wrote a book called Teria Inter Venice Latin for, between, um, it’s kind of like the third man in the middle. And he was saying that we are at his time in the middle between a modern science based upon rational and an ancient superstition based upon, you know, uh, or an ancient system astrology based upon superstition.

[00:16:23] And it was in this book, uh, his third man in the middle, that he cautioned scientists in their haste for understanding and untangling the laws of the universe when it came to the superstitions and blasphemies. This is K Kepler’s words when it came to the superstitions and blasphemies that were contained, in the ancient system of astrology.

[00:16:46] Not to quote. Not to throw the baby out with the bathwater end quote. That’s a Kepler basically saying that there was a lot of good in astrology too, but he was so annoyed and he wrote about how awful it was that the royalty used astrology to know when to go to war and whether or not they were gonna get laid.

[00:17:13] It was like no difference than today that Kepler was, it was like people actually, that’s what, that’s what made astrology popular. And this is kind of like an obsession that people who are attracted to astrology often think that it has all the answers that will take the mystery out of life, and it will tell them if they should do this or not, or when they should do this or not.

[00:17:38] And that then becomes a very unhealthy obsession. But it’s really only one of the unhealthy obsessions that I think astrology stirs up in people. People have so many questions and this so much unanswered about the mystery of mysteries of life that, because astrology seems to have some inklings of an answer here or there.

[00:18:01] All of a sudden it has all the answers. And I know that, you know, Amanda, about my astrology work is that I, when people call up or now send emails and saying that, you know, like a reading, cuz they, they have a question. My, my response is always, no, I think you’ve reached the wrong astrologer. It seems like you’re looking for the answer astrologer and I’m the question astrologer.

[00:18:27] And it’s not because of bad astrology. In fact, it’s because I give such good answers and my answers if I give you a good answer. Is my answer. It’s not your answer, and therefore it stops your questioning process, which is what creates your reality. And I’m not gonna do that to you. I wouldn’t do that even to someone I loved.

[00:18:52] I’m not gonna answer their question. Because even if it’s a good answer. It’s not your answer. And so from that standpoint, this is, I think, one of the worst, dangers that astrology has for people is that it takes the responsibility away from them and puts it, oh, it’s not me. I just act like that because I have Mars in the eighth house square, you know, square Saturn, and that’s why I do this evil stuff.

[00:19:20] And that’s a horrible use of astrology. But you see, astrology isn’t here to limit us to the choi, to, to what appears in the chart. Astrology is here to show us that there are 12 other ways. Or 11 other ways that any planet in any sign can operate. And this is where astrology as a yoga practice, and I don’t mean, yoga as sitting in postures or asana, I mean yoga in the true sense, which is a Sanskrit word that comes from the yoke of an ox.

[00:19:59] And yoga, whether it’s a physical, you know, asana based, yoga, or whether it’s a genre yoga or a yoga of devotion or a mental yoga or yoga of doing right things. Yoga is simply a way of harnessing the power of the oxen that unless it’s channeled just goes awry. And in our charts, we are humans.

[00:20:23] We take the course of least resistance, we go awry until we begin to learn some. Guidelines, which may be the 10 Commandments. It may be some religious or spiritual teaching. It may be years of therapy. It may be an intense entheogenic or psychedelic experience that kapow shatters our our thoughts and wakes us up in some way and we go, oh my God, I see something everything differently.

[00:20:52] Now it can be astrology.

Worst Thing You Can Do with Astrology

[00:20:54] Rick: I mean, there’s things that basically can wake us up, but then the question is, what do we do with it? And so for me, one of the worst offenses that people make with astrology is looking at their chart and then being afraid of what’s gonna happen in a week or a month or in a decade, because that which we resist.

[00:21:15] Will persist. And so when we put negative energy into a transit, even if it’s a difficult transit like, like Saturn or Pluto coming across our, natal moon or natal sun or ascendant, I’m not saying that these transits are necessarily pieces of cake. However, they are necessary developmental, phases in which we can either fold our cards and walk away from the game, or we can use that to develop some sort of discipline and or methodology in our life to react or not to react, but to respond.

[00:21:59] To the events, because again, people think that what’s in our chart, there’s some sort of, you know, fate. And just because I have this in my chart, this is what will be, well, you can’t look at a chart and tell whether that chart is the chart of a Nobel Peace Prize winner or a serial killer. Now you can make some assumptions, and sometimes those assumptions are true, but sometimes they’re not.

[00:22:26] Because you can look at the charts with the most horrifically complicated and or difficult or intra traditional astrology, debilitated, planets. And yet the, there are people who take those specific energies and that becomes the, the thorn, you know, in their, in their foot or in their side that teaches them how to remove thorns from everyone else.

[00:22:52] You know? So oftentimes it’s the thing that is. The source of the problem. That becomes the greatest gift that we can have if we don’t just blindly react, if we actually respond with intention and learn how, learn how to maximize the use of our chart, which is really the higher use of astrology. Now the thing with obsession though, is really intriguing because people become very obsessed.

[00:23:22] And I’ve seen this in, in people just learning about astrology and, and, and spending three years and wanting to learn everything about it until they realize it doesn’t have all the answers that they thought. Many of these people come real, become really good astrologers, and many of them just go back to their day job of, you know, accounting or whatever it, it might be.

[00:23:46] But astrology certainly is a viable tool to widen our perspective, but it doesn’t give any answers. It only gives us perspective. And this is the difference between a, hmm, how do I wanna say this without being too judgemental? All right, I’ll be judgemental. This is the difference between a, um, useful astrologer and one who probably does more harm than good.

[00:24:17] And that is whether or not you use astrology as an astrologer to build up your power. As the astrologer and or to use astrology as a tool to take power away from the individual and shift it to the cosmos, to their chart. Well, you’re just like this because this is what the chart is for every situation.

[00:24:45] There is a, there, there, there is an array of potential responses. You know, the, the, to, to quote or not to quote, but to take the idea that Rick Tarnu spends so much time talking about, and that is astrology is not specifically predictive, it’s archetypally, descriptive. And there’s many ways in which a person can live their life with aal.

[00:25:15] Saturn conjunct the moon. For some people it’s so heavy and so intense, they never get out from under the thumb of Saturn. For other people, they end up becoming a tyrant and projecting that Saturnian energy on those. They love thinking that that is how they best use it. And for other people, they use that very same transit to basically deconstruct authoritarianism and to help everyone around them feel that sense of authority or power.

[00:25:46] That’s so easily taken away from us by the social systems. So there is an array of potential and possibility when it comes to how people react or integrate or assimilate or become obsessed by astrology, either by wanting to know everything about it or being obsessed. By trying to destroy it. And there are many scientists and quote unquote hardcore academicians who are obsessed with making astrology, look stupid or, or exor sizing the, the, the, the, the blight, the wart, of astrology from, you know, the body of humanity.

[00:26:33] Mm.

[00:26:34] Amanda: That’s another perspective. There’s definitely people obsessed with astrology on the side of Yes. Wanting to

[00:26:40] Rick: destroy it. Exactly. Wow. So there’s many ways to have an obsession. Mm-hmm. You know? Yeah.

[00:26:47] Amanda: Yeah. So what I’m hearing from you is that it’s when we are no longer, it’s like when, when we’ve given our power away to it, and, and like you said, this, we can do this with anything, we can give our power away to

[00:27:01] Rick: anything that, to our, to our parents, to our children.

[00:27:05] Yes. Exactly. No to, you know, to to, to our political leaders. There’s a good one. You know, because, because the world today is. Complex in a way, in a way that’s different than the way it was complex a few hundred years ago. It was complex a few hundred years ago because it was complex to get water that didn’t kill you.

[00:27:27] You know, and to get shelter and food through winter, that was complex. That’s not part of our complexity. You know, instead of being a, a hunter gatherer trying to survive by gathering food, we now live in an information jungle where our, technically our food and water are largely supplied. I know that’s not the case for, for everyone.

[00:27:52] But in our culture, most of us, have at least, you know, even if we’re scraping by food and water, but we’re overwhelmed by the information jungle that’s basically lurking out there to steal our. Authority to, to hijack our trajectory, to, to pollute our thinking process, to change our mind so that someone else can benefit by our inaction or our acquiescence of our own responsibility or, or, or power.

[00:28:30] It’s a very different world than it once was, and therefore, astrology serves a very different role. And also astro jurors are practicing a very different set of tools than, than astrologers practiced a thousand years ago or even 500 years ago.

[00:28:49] Amanda: Okay.

Power and Fear in Astrolgy

[00:28:49] Amanda: And the other thing I’m hearing you say is that the, the role of the astrologer can also play into this sort of, unhealthy dynamic when the astrologer is using the information or the tool itself to bolster their own power and authority and, and.

[00:29:12] Take, you can’t really take power away from someone, but you can definitely try

[00:29:16] Rick: to. Right? Oh, you can, you can take power away from someone in many different ways. Mm-hmm. I, I, I, I don’t, I don’t agree with that statement. Uh, I’m, I’m not, I’m not trying to be Aries Martian argumentative. But, you know, but, but being stopped by a policeman, the policeman takes power away from you immediately.

[00:29:35] Mm-hmm. I mean, there, there’s an engagement there. Right. And as an astrologer, I can take power away from a client by by saying, um, I’m looking at your chart and I see that you have the moon at 20 degrees of Pisces, and I know that Saturn has just entered Pisces. So you need to prepare for a really difficult time ahead when Saturn comes up to your, your natal moon, and you may go through some real stressful situations.

[00:30:01] Um, if your marriage isn’t in good shape, you may get divorced. You know, these are all things that you should be prepared for. I’ve just taken power away from that person because when I’m an astrologer with a client, whether I know it or not, they are in an altered state of consciousness just as if I’d hypnotized them and said, listen to everything that I say, what I say is true, and you’ll believe it.

[00:30:25] Why is that? Because when I’m speaking as an astrologer, the wonderful, now deceased astrologer, zip dobbins used to say that when an astrologer talks, the client doesn’t hear the astrologer talking. The client hears the cosmos talking. And so when I say something as an astrologer, the person might be distracted by looking at the flowers on the table or by, a, a, a twinge that they just had in their shoulder or whatever, but their unconscious hears everything, and the unconscious doesn’t know about time.

[00:31:02] It just sits there and waits for little events to happen. And so basically by pumping negativity toward a specific outcome that I may have seen in someone else with that particular transit, I’m basically creating a hook for the unconscious mind, almost like delivering a homeopathic remedy. It, it just takes very, very little.

[00:31:26] Energy to drive a circuit that’s reson, you know, tuned. And therefore two years later, the person calls me up and says, you were right. I got divorced. My god, I should have seen that coming. Well, you did. You made it happen.

[00:31:41] Amanda: So, Rick, how this is, this is, it gets a little confusing, so it, it’s, if the astrologer saw that in the chart and, and it is usually a tense kind of aspect or event, how could the astrologer help someone prepare for that without suggesting that it’s gonna happen?

[00:32:05] Rick: Well, one could frame it, one, one could frame it differently and put it into perspective. Mm-hmm. Two separate issues. Putting it into perspective is very important because if the person’s over, you know, 30 some odd years and it’s a Saturn transit, well, they had Saturn transit over their moon previously, and in fact, they’ve had the transit of Saturn squaring their moon and opposing their moon and squaring their moon again, and now it’s conjoining it for the next time.

[00:32:34] And one can actually. Do the work, the shadow work, which is really making the unconscious or the invisible visible. And, and, and in effect by going back and recreating the history of what has happened prior times, one can begin to see the repetitive behavior, not the synchronicity. Those are meaningful coincidences at the same moment, but the synchronicity, which is the meaningful connection through time, dia across or through time, dia Kronos through time.

[00:33:10] And by doing that one then begins to see that there’s other ways in which one can engage that energy. So one doesn’t just fall into the invisible patterning that has already been established. Now this isn’t just a telling the client, here’s what you need to do, because often it can involve years of therapy.

[00:33:33] Or whatever type of self developmental work you see, astrology is not therapy. Astrology. I, I always like to tell people I’m not a therapist, I’m a catalyst. Hmm. You know, and, and yet what I can say about your upcoming Saturn transit to your natal moon, as long as we’re on that one, I can say that Saturn is the planet of restriction.

[00:34:00] Saturn is the planet that stabilizes energy and that pulls energy in toward the center. And as humans, we like to often push energy outward Jupiter and not Saturn. Oftentimes when we feel Saturnian things in our life, Like getting a speeding ticket. It’s a Saturnian thing. We, we bumped into a limit and we got caught, and therefore reality pushed back.

[00:34:29] Now, some Saturnian things are really healthy. They’re guardrails on, on a curve around a mountain pass that prevents us from going over the edge. But other Saturnian things may not be as healthy. Like when the government interferes with your free choice over something that they shouldn’t be messing with, that’s still Saturn infringing on you.

[00:34:52] So when Saturn comes around onto you, and, and passes over the point where your natal moon is, it’s certainly a time when one might be more aware of one’s restrictive environment. Now, knowing that in ad in advance, rather than waiting until. Saturn has you tied up in handcuffs in jail, getting a ticket?

[00:35:16] Being punished for the Saturn is karma. You know, it’s the, you get what you deserve. And, and, and, and so rather than waiting until the event happens when Saturn transits your moon, if it’s two years off or a year and a half off, this is a good time to start thinking about what, what has Saturn told me every time in my life it’s acted or interacted with my moon in the prior times?

[00:35:42] And what are the lessons I can learn out of this? What are the things that I haven’t been in control of? Where in my life am I not paying attention? I’m working really hard and my job is going great, but I’m not paying any attention to my family and my kids. Well, when Saturn hits the moon, maybe then that’s, The lesson that I’m gonna have to learn, that’ll be really difficult unless I start dealing with it ahead of time.

[00:36:06] So I think this is really, the, the lesson with all transits is that they are, they are neither good nor bad. They feel often, they feel bad while they’re happening. I saw someone in the chat box that’s going by and I’m not really reading it, as it goes by. But everyone has those events in their life where when they were going through it, they were convinced, this is the worst damn thing that ever happened.

[00:36:32] This is awful. My life has fallen apart. This isn’t working. I can’t believe this is what’s going on. And then eight years later they go, that’s the best thing that ever happened to me, because if that didn’t happen to me, I wouldn’t be here. That’s often what, what occurs. And so, you know, just this whole idea of, of astrology being the obsession, the fear is that astrology is fated isd.

[00:36:58] Every astrology says, this is the way it is. My chart is written in stone and I can’t change it. No, you can’t change it, but you can change how you work with it and how you respond to it, rather than just saying, I guess this is gonna suck in my life always because I have this planet in this sign, in this house, square that planet.

[00:37:20] And I mean, that’s just a, a, a total cop out. Hmm.

[00:37:25] Amanda: Okay.

Finding a Healthy Balance

[00:37:25] Amanda: So. You are, you are admittedly obsessed with astrology and has have been for decades. I think many of the people in the chat are also admittedly obsessed and it doesn’t seem it, it’s al, I always think of it as like that process of falling in love.

[00:37:42] With someone or something where you are, you’re kind of obsessed, like you’re thinking about the person or the thing all the time. The thing I’ve noticed about astrology is it does feel like you can stay in love with it for the long term.

[00:37:58] Rick: Oh, you can do that. You can do that with the human too. I

[00:38:01] Amanda: know you can.

[00:38:02] I know you can. And it seems like in astrology it happens all the time. I think it, it seems to happen a lot that people fall in love. They have that initial like obsession. They maybe take a step away for a period of time. And I was recently talking to Taylor Schuler, who she was talking about titrating and how you kind of, you go all in and then you, you take a, you take a breath, you take a step back, and then you go back in.

[00:38:25] And it sounds like you did that at least. Well,

[00:38:27] Rick: and, and titration actually is less about going in and out than it is about finding the right speed of flow of the liquid, right. When something’s being titrated in the lab. Mm-hmm. There’s basically a, a right drip or flow. And, and here, ] what, what you’re really talking about astrologically is the, important balance between the cosmic regulators.

[00:38:56] Which is Jupiter more, Saturn less? Mm-hmm. That’s what you know. Jupiter is expansive. Saturn is tractive, and what happens is that when we become obsessed, what happens is that we’re pushing up against the limit of Saturn and we’re ignoring it. When we become obsessed, we basically have the titration system opened up wide so that the energy is just flowing full.

[00:39:27] And that is great, except we’re not getting any other nutrients and we’re not getting any, we’re only getting the flow of what that is, which ultimately is to our detriment. So I would say that although sometimes the way that Jupiter, Saturn res itself is that Saturn comes in with a stop. Okay, now start again and see if you can get it right.

[00:39:52] That’s, that’s, that’s different than the, let’s see if I can find a healthy place to put this obsession that I have. I mean, in my life I’ve been, you know, obsessed, you know, with deep psychology since before I even could quite figure out what it was. Mm-hmm. You know, reading Freud and Jung when it, when I was too young to really understand it.

[00:40:15] But something was, was, and I’m still obsessed with that. Music. I mean, as a kid, I was blessed by the fact that I had intense musical training on a number of instruments. I’m not, I’ve never wanted to be a performer, but again, as you and my students know, my love of music is really what drives my love of astrology.

[00:40:36] Astrology in, in, in effect, my obsession with astrology is really a part of my obsession with music, which is basically the hum. Of the music of the Spheres. And it’s still, it’s basically, there’s something very mathematical, something very, the sacred geometry of, of music. It’s all there. But there’s also something totally magical that the math and science doesn’t touch.

[00:41:07] My point here is that I have a number of obsessions, not just astrology, but astrology seems to be in my life and in many people’s lives, like the highest form of the combination of the other obsessions. And from that standpoint, I feel very blessed that I can wake up and think about astrology every day.

[00:41:31] However, there are times when I’m. Out in the woods or by the ocean or, or, or, having just a, you know, cleared my ears and may and my regulator is kicked in and I’m 40 feet below the surface of the water, you know, with a scuba tank on my back where I’m not thinking about astrology at all. So astrology is a great system, but it’s a map.

[00:41:56] It’s not reality. It’s simply one way to map reality. Just like a map doesn’t tell us where we are going, it just tells us where things are. Astrology doesn’t tell us what we’re going to do. It just tells us when we’re going to get to certain intersections. And if we’re at that intersection totally unprepared, we’re likely to take the course of least resistance, which may or may not be our best choice.

[00:42:23] But if we know an intersection is coming up and we’re prepared for it, well then we get to not wait until we’re at the intersection and then freak out. Instead, we get to prepare, and when we reach that intersection, we have some idea as to what that intersection is all about and what our choices might be.

[00:42:42] And that’s a much higher use of astrology than simply being obsessed or being afraid of. Pluto going over our ascendant or reaching our moon or, or whatever the, whatever the aspect might be, or, you know. Yeah.

[00:42:59] Amanda: Hmm.

Passion vs. Obsession

[00:43:00] Amanda: As you were speaking, I was thinking you, we could probably just swap out the word obsession with the word passion because you, you’re passionate about astrology, you’re passionate about music, you’re passionate about all these things, and you, you love them and it’s fun for you to continually explore

[00:43:15] Rick: them.

[00:43:16] Yeah. And I think the difference between, and, and, and I’m not, I’m not sure what the dictionary, um, you know, we, we could check in with, you know, um, chat, g p t. Mm-hmm. But in my mind the difference between a passion and an obsession is that there’s a fine line between, feeling something very strongly.

[00:43:39] And reaching a point where that feeling something very strongly is having negative impact on the rest of your life. Right.

[00:43:46] Amanda: It owns you. It it owns you. And, and I think when we’re obsessed with something too, there’s this angst fear of losing it or not having it. And I, and I’ve seen that before, astrology can be something that people rely on so much that if it gets taken away from them for some reason, you know, they can’t access what they were accessing for information.

[00:44:09] It, it, it’s like, it’s take, it’s like taking something away from an addict. I mean, it can be that like, oh my God, what am I gonna do? Like, how am I gonna live now? Yeah. And I, and I think that’s when it sort of goes into that line of, Ooh, like, was that a healthy relationship with the thing?

Maintaining Your Power

[00:44:25] Rick: Yeah. I, I, I have, um, when I lived in Minneapolis, I had a friend who was a Methodist minister, and, um, and his daughter, I think at the time was maybe about 10 years old or so, and we would hang out in his living room, a a group of us.

[00:44:40] We got together very often and just had these incredible deep, you know, conversations about, you know, life, liberty, the pursuit of happiness, meaning of things. And, you know, what, what I like to call cosmic bullshit, you know, not making any less of it, it’s, it’s, it’s my life. But one day when we were talking about as astrology and his daughter was often present at these, conversations, and, and I should say she was an amazing athlete.

[00:45:09] And she played. On a boys’ little league team baseball, and she was, shortstop and she was really good. And she said, and, and she kind of interrupted the flow and she said, she goes, I have a problem with, with, with this, all this astrology stuff because be, be because if, if, if I’m standing and playing the field and or, and, and I’m thinking that this batter is left-handed, the pitcher does this, there’s someone on first base he’s gonna run to second.

[00:45:41] I need to make that play to second base first. You know, if I’m going through all this stuff in my head, I’m so lost in thought that, and then she stops, she goes. But if I’m not thinking anything, and if I’m just there, man, when that ball comes to me, I just automatically know what to do. It was very powerful because people get lost in the analytical side of astrology when if we cleared our own bullshit, we, we know what to do.

[00:46:15] And, and it’s, and, and astrology can be used as a corroboration, to, you know, to what our decisions are. And I think the greatest gift of astrology is it can help people understand that they’re really part of the cosmos. That I am not separate from everything that’s out there. In fact, we are one in the same in some way.

[00:46:40] I’m a reflection of that. However, I don’t have to blindly react to everything. I mean, there are things that I can’t change what the Greeks called hamnet, the, the, the fate of, you know, if I fall off a cliff, I will accelerate at the speed of 32 feet per second, per second until I hit the ground and maybe die.

[00:47:04] That’s, I can’t control that if I’m falling. But there are things that I can control. Like if someone does something or says something to me that’s not okay, I can choose to get angry. I can choose to overreact and maybe do something that might be detrimental in the long run. There’s many ways in which I can respond.

[00:47:26] And here’s the thing that astrology teaches, as does yoga, as does most forms of spiritual practice and meditation. And that is that there’s a difference between reaction and response. And that often we get into trouble when we respond. As we react. Now, there’s a certain time that we have to do that.

[00:47:51] Often it’s, there are times when that, when, when responding immediately can be lifesaving. However, there are times when it’s not, and the best thing we can do is simply allow the reaction to occur internally and then respond in some way that makes sense rather than, than a reaction, like a, you know, a like an infant.

[00:48:17] You know, we’ll cry, and scream as soon as it feels pain or whatever. And as adults we learn that we can process before we go there. And again, I’m not saying that we should not feel things and not trust what it is we’re feeling, but sometimes there’s this balance. And I think astrology teaches us that we have that capability to work with these complex energies rather than always feeling like we’re at effect.

[00:48:48] We also have ability or agency to be caused, although we can’t do it. The time to figure out how to sail a ship is not. When you’re on a ship alone in the middle of a storm, and your sail have ripped, that’s not the time to learn how to take down the sail and put up new uns, orb, whatever. The point is, is that there are tools and practices that, that we need to learn along the way so that we’re capable of dealing with a crisis, an emergency, a, a difficult situation, rather than just feeling overwhelmed by it and then taking the course of least resistance.

[00:49:29] Hmm. Okay.

[00:49:30] Amanda: So what I’m hearing is that as we engage with astrology, it’s important to stay aware of ourselves in it, to not give our power away to it or to any perceived, You know, bad transit or, you know, any perceived information that we don’t give away our authority to it and get swept up in the fear of it, or the anxiety of it, or whatever that might create,

[00:49:58] Rick: which sometimes is easier to say than to do.

[00:50:01] I mean, if, if your life is on the edge and, and you don’t have money and you’ve been, and, and, and you’ve lost your job and you can’t feed your kids and, and people, you know, are suffering too. I mean, it, it, it’s all fine and dandy for us to say this like this, but it’s not always easy to turn it into reality.

[00:50:23] And so I’m just wanna make sure that no one there, there’s no quick and easy, you know, one, one size fits all solution to, oh, now I know it’s not just me. It’s, you know, I can change things. You know, that Ram Dass used to say, you know, that, , you know, God comes to the homeless in the form of food. You know, it, it’s, it’s like, yeah.

[00:50:43] It’s like we can’t deal with thinking about how we’re gonna make our life better if we have a 500 pound weight on our right foot.

[00:50:52] Amanda: Right? Yes. Yes.

Moving Away from Fear

[00:50:54] Amanda: And I, I mean, even, even, even with everything that, all the astrology, I’m, I’m around all the astrologers. I get to hear from, I’ve looked up things like Pluto on your son, and, and when you read what they say about it, it’s like, it’s kind of hard not to be like, Ooh, that’s kind of scary.

[00:51:14] That doesn’t sound very fun. Like, there, there’s that gripping that happens. Yeah. And, and yeah, so, so being aware of ourselves and how we’re reacting

[00:51:23] Rick: to it. And, and you know, one thing about what you just said, uh, Pluto in particular, but the further out the planet, the slower moving it is, the more it.

[00:51:33] The, the more it requires us to deal with what’s going on. You know, if, if, if, if you’re sitting having breakfast one day with your spouse or your, um, lover, or a friend, and, and you look at them and go, Ugh, and, and you go bury yourself in your cell phone, what an idiot. You know, you know, and you go, ah, I can’t believe I’m sitting here with this person.

[00:51:55] They’re, they’re disgusting. And then an hour later you feel great. You were just in a bad mood. That’s a bad moon. A bad moon, a bad only lasts for an hour or so, or mm-hmm. You know, bad mood moods. Our emotions change. But if you’re in a bad Mars or worse, a bad Saturn, that feeling stays around long enough that you gotta do something about it.

[00:52:18] Mm-hmm. And so what happens is that Saturn as the slowest moving known planet for thousands of years was the ultimate worst planet because when it came. It wasn’t gonna leave until you either cashed in your chips or changed. Then when Uranus was discovered, it was immediately thought to be worse than Saturn.

[00:52:42] It was destructive. It was cataclysmic. It was, it was awful. It made it, it was like lightning striking and burning down your house. And it was only later as we learned to assimilate it that we realized it’s also breakthrough in genius. And then when Neptune was discovered, and you read books from the, late 18 hundreds, early 19 hundreds about Neptune, and all they talk about is delusion and, and psychosis and schizophrenia and, and, and, and mental institutions, insane asylums.

[00:53:15] And it was only later that we began to realize if we can assimilate this information and work with it, this is the source of our creative imagination. This is spirituality. This is, this is our connection with everything that’s, that’s invisible in the three-dimensional world. And the same was true with Pluto.

[00:53:32] And it was discovered at the time of the rise of mass fascism in the early thirties, the ad Hitler, Mussolini, you know, Stalin. I mean, it was awful. And so Pluto was labeled with all this, you know, mass fascism control domination. And it was only through time that as we learned to assimilate the hell realms the Lord of the hell realms or the underworld, the unconscious.

[00:53:56] By doing shadow work, we learned that the most exquisite transformations that we can process are basically platonic. And so this whole thing of bad. Planet, you know, and, and, and, and projection of negativity onto the future is a very dangerous obsession with astrology. And I’m not saying that bad things don’t happen or that difficult things don’t happen.

[00:54:24] I’m not saying that there aren’t natural disasters that kill thousands, even hundreds of thousands of people in a sweep or wars that kill millions of people or, or horrific genocides or, or, or, or, or mass shootings or whatever these things are. I’m, I mean, I’m not trying to Pollyanna anything. I’m simply saying that the events themselves, happen and, and yes, there are things that we as humans can do to either mitigate or to maybe, um, make those events less prevalent.

[00:55:00] Uh, although we can’t control everything externally, and in this day and age, one of the difficult things is that pretty much all of us humans are overwhelmed by the speed of change and by the speed of technology altering our lives in ways that we don’t even fully, um, realize yet. And we’re overwhelmed by, by those people who are in control, their inability to deal with it.

[00:55:33] And so we have a system where, We have either religion, uh, churches or political institutions or schools or external systems that we rely on, whether it’s the trash pickup or getting electricity through the, you know, our wall sockets or whatever it is. We’re relying on external things that we don’t have control over.

[00:55:56] And as we see them break down or fall apart, this creates a high level of anxiety or fear, especially when there’s such a bifurcation of what is the best course for humanity to take? Is it this road or is it that road? And unfortunately, on 50 different issues, there’s different roads to take. And by taking one road, it doesn’t mean that we’re taking that same road for another decision, which makes us feel as humans overwhelmed, which then drives us to look for.

[00:56:30] Answers and astrology seems to sit in a place where for some people it has quick and easy answers. You, you look at a chart, this is good, this is bad, this works, this doesn’t work. Boom. Done. And in a way, it’s like the church. You know the last book that Sigmund Freud wrote was a book called The Future of an Illusion.

[00:56:51] That was the name of the book, the Future of An Illusion. And it was basically about how he believed that the, mother and father that we have as an infant, as we grow up, is projected onto reality and has created throughout time the institutions of the church, the father in heaven, the the mother church, that we gain the same feeling of infantile safety from these external institutions.

[00:57:22] That should protect us, like our parents should protect us. And of course, our parents don’t always protect us and neither does the government nor the church. Now, where, where do we go with this? We come back to astrology. We can have a tool to see things the way they are without imposing, you know, our fear onto it by looking at what can we do in a situation to.

[00:57:50] Either ameliorate the potential difficulty to work with it or even to respond to what may come of it, rather than just fearing what it is that’s out there. Hmm.

[00:58:03] Amanda: Okay.

Importance of Awareness and Empowerment

[00:58:04] Amanda: Well, I think Kristen Moonrise kind of sums up, I’d say, at least what I’m taking away from the conversation around obsession and how things become obsess, how we become obsessed, and all these things, which is basically know thy self, know thy self, watch thy self engage with it.

[00:58:23] Just, I mean, bear witness to the way that you engage with it and where it feels like it’s getting unhealthy, where it feels like it’s a helpful tool where you’re falling into patterns, where you’re, where you’re using it in order to not fall into patterns all.

[00:58:37] Rick: And you know who the original people were who had that idea.

[00:58:41] Hmm. Tics. Mm-hmm. The word nosis, G N O s I s, basically nosis means to know. Mm-hmm. You know, if you’re agno stick, that means you don’t know, you know? Mm-hmm. Um, and, uh, and, and in a way, whether we realize it or not, we’re all. Agnostic. We don’t know. And anyone who thinks they know maybe on a path, but they don’t know either.

[00:59:14] But I really think it’s not just about knowing thyself, it’s also being in relationships where you don’t assume that you know someone else. Hmm. Big danger of astrologers. I’m looking at your chart. I know you, I don’t know you, I know that your Mars is, is, is square, , Saturn, but I don’t know whether you are, you know, angry at your dad cuz he beat up on you as a kid and now you’re beating up on other people.

[00:59:46] Or if you’re an amazing athlete who has taken that, that hot cold, you know, start stop energy of the Saturn Mars Square and have turned it into something that becomes human excellence. Where about. As astrologers, our job is not to know our client. Our job is to use our tool to empower our clients. And in fact, I see, my friend and editor and our associate Gale Goldberg on the line, I’m outing you Gail, who just, who, who, um, uh, posted, , in the chat.

[01:00:21] The ethics of astrology are essential to consider. If I am not empowering my client and encouraging their awareness and free will, then I am not doing my job. And I would say I couldn’t agree more, but that’s stated in the negative. I agree. State is that positive? That’s what our job is. And, and, and, and granted, empowering someone doesn’t always give them the answer.

[01:00:49] You know, you can have a, A client who’s been wrongly convicted of a crime who’s on death row. And you can tell them that they have the power in their life to change their life, but it’s like the person, it’s hame. It’s like the person who’s falling off the cliff and accelerating at the speed of, you know, a free falling object.

[01:01:12] And that doesn’t mean that person should give up. But again, no matter what the difficult situation is, we always have a choice as to how we respond rather than just react. Hmm. Sometimes it’s easier than others, and for some people it seems to be easier than others always. Mm-hmm. And for some people it seems to be easy at some ti times and impossible at other times.

[01:01:36] Mm-hmm. These are all things to be aware of because it’s not one or the other. It’s about awareness. Know thyself as best as one can at every given moment. Mm.

[01:01:48] Amanda: Yes. And the other takeaway is that it’s complex. There’s no like black or white answer here. There’s a lot of things to consider. And there’s, and again, it comes back to your own barometer of, of what’s a healthy engagement.

[01:02:00] Cuz there’s people in the chat saying, I’m obsessed and I, I am obsessed and I love it and I just can’t get enough. And it’s like, well, who’s to say that that’s bad or wrong? That’s

[01:02:09] Rick: not, that’s right. So, yeah. That, that, that’s exactly correct. And, and, and, and, and again, I, I think the danger or one danger, not the danger, is to, label or classify someone else’s, interest, disinterest, passion or obsession.

[01:02:30] Because we don’t know what that person is actually doing with it or how it’s impacting them. I would say though, that when. A passion or a belief, and I would say a belief is a step toward a passion. If you believe something really fervently, then that becomes a passion. Whether it’s I believe in this teaching or whether I believe you’re the most awesome person I ever met in my life.

[01:02:55] Those are both beliefs that can create and a passion, but they can create an obsession that will then have us do things that may be harmful to ourselves, but more importantly, they may be harmful to someone else. And when someone has a belief that then imposes their belief on other people’s beliefs, that is a warning signal, and that’s part of the fear that we all live with in this day and age.

[01:03:24] Because it doesn’t matter what side of any coin you come up with, even though I have my. Very strong beliefs about very many issues. There are many issues where I just, I don’t know, but there are many issues that even if, I don’t know, I think I know, but that I think I know doesn’t mean that I get to make you think what I think, and that’s the danger.

[01:03:49] And that’s really one of the beginning concepts of this country, the United States of America, that we’re not doing a very good job of living up to.

[01:04:00] Amanda: And that’s a whole nother can of worms that we could,

[01:04:02] Rick: we could explore. Well, it’s, it’s not another can of worms, and I’m not looking at having any of those discussions about any of those issues.

[01:04:10] Mm-hmm. I’m just saying that if we can’t figure out a way to understand. When our beliefs become an obsession that’s hurting others, then it doesn’t matter what our beliefs are that have become obsessions, no one’s gonna be happy. Hmm.


[01:04:29] Amanda: Alright, Rick, thank you so much for this meandering, but very fulfilling and juicy exploration of this topic of.

[01:04:38] Astrology and obsession and how that operates and where’s the line and, and how do we engage with astrology in a way that is empowering? How do we even speak to astrology in a way that empowers others so many different things covered today? Well, I

[01:04:54] Rick: think one of the, one of the opportunities that we have at this junction is to create new language.

[01:05:00] And this is happening in astrology. It’s not just me. Mm-hmm. I mean, it really, in some ways began with the, Dan Rodger and the, and the creation of what we now call humanistic and or than evolutionary astrology, where we are less judgmental and predictive and more, co cooperative and empowering. And I think that changes going on in astrology, quite powerfully whether we’re a part of that or not, but maybe not fast enough.

[01:05:33] Hmm.

[01:05:35] Amanda: Interesting. Okay. Well, thank you for helping us get one step closer to that. And if any of you are listening and you’re thinking you, you want to engage with astrology in a way that is mindful of so many of the things that we talked about here today, check out Rick’s Astrology Foundation series that he has taught because that will give you.

[01:05:57] You know, even the question I asked, well, how would you talk about that upcoming transit in a way that isn’t disempowering, that isn’t like using the power of suggestion to bring something about in someone’s life that they might not wanna experience? And so if you wanna learn how to do that yourself, if you wanna explore more how Rick approaches a chart and the foundations through which he gets to his conclusions, check out Astrology Foundations.

[01:06:23] It’s a whole series that Rick has taught with us here at Astrology Hub. You can go to astrology hub.com/foundations, and that’s where you can start. And there’s a level one, level two, level three. There’s all also, chart reading extravaganzas where he’s actually reading charts alive so you can see him in real time and why he’s saying certain things the way he’s saying them.

[01:06:45] Rick: Amanda one thing before we go in, and that is, words of wisdom that I learned from my, now deceased, astrology buddy partner in crime, Jeff Joer, and actually yesterday was, hi, was his birth anniversary day before yesterday, his birthday. So he’s been on my mind. But Jeff used to say, and I love this, and I’ve basically.

[01:07:08] Have, have, adopted this to be my own. But I got it from Jeff and I tell almost every client that I see as we get warmed up to go into our session. Just for the record, I don’t care whether I’m right or wrong. If I’m saying something that’s not, that doesn’t make sense to you or is just plain wrong, say it, share that with me because I have no, I I I have no skin in the game of wanting to be right.

[01:07:37] This is not about an ego venture for me, and this was Jeffs line. I’d much rather be useful than be correct. And, and I think that that’s something that, that so many astrologers look at a chart and they wanna say the right things. No, you, you say the things that you’re, that the chart is bringing up and that comes up in your interaction with the other person.

[01:08:02] But you do you, I don’t mean you, Amanda, I mean you, Rick, I mean you, any astrologer looking at a chart, you don’t have the answers. You just have a map and you’re just making shit up. Now you’re making good shit up because you’ve been trained to know what these archetypes are in general, but you don’t know how they work in your client’s life.

[01:08:25] And therefore it’s more important for us to be useful. Than it is to be right.

[01:08:31] Amanda: Mm-hmm. I love it, Rick. We, we have a, survey that goes out after all the readings that happen on Astrologer Connect on our reading platform. And I’ve been amazed at how many people comment about how much they loved that the astrologer checked in with them.

[01:08:46] The astrologer asked them, que the astrologer listened. And it wasn’t just like this top down, Hey, this is what’s gonna happen. It was more, which was,

[01:08:54] Rick: which is very different than the way a, an astrology reading was 50 or a hundred years ago. So maybe it was no conversation. It was just, I’m the astrologer, I’m the authority, and I’m telling you what’s going on.

[01:09:07] Amanda: Right. Exactly. Exactly. So maybe things are a changing break,

[01:09:10] Rick: which is a good thing. Good. This has been lovely. Thank you as always.

[01:09:13] Amanda: thank you everybody for being here. Thank you so much for all of your chat and your comments.

[01:09:18] If you love this content, make sure that you subscribe to the channel, share the videos with your friends. And for those of you who do that all the time, thank you. We’re so grateful. It helps us get these shows out to more people. So thank you so much for that, and we will catch you on the next episode.

[01:09:34] Rick, thank you so much for your time.