What is Astrological Magic w/ Jenn Zahrt

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In this episode of the Astrology Hub Podcast, Amanda ‘Pua' Walsh and Dr. Jenn Zhart talk about Astrological Magic, Talismans and Theurgy.

You'll learn …

πŸŒ‘ What is Astrological Magic and how to start practicing it
πŸŒ’ The difference between good and bad magic
πŸŒ“ How Talismans work

πŸͺ„ Practical Astrological Magic with Jenn Zahrt, PhD is now open for enrollment!

Astrological Magic Course

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from a Master Magician atΒ astrologyhub.com/magic

Welcome to the Astrology Hub podcast. I'm Amanda Pool Walsh, founder of Astrology Hub and your host for our flagship show. We explore the many ways Astrology can support you and your relationships, career, health, and personal growth. Thanks for tuning in. Well, hello everybody and welcome to the Astrology Hub podcast. I am so excited to be here with all of you today and with this incredible astrologer,

author Alchemist, Dr. Jen Zart. And we are gonna be talking about a very interesting and deep and rich, intriguing topic, and that is astrological magic. So we're gonna talk about what astrological magic is, how it's different from regular magic. Is it just superstition or kind of, kind of icky in a way? You know, some of those things that a lot of us have associations with around magic.

And then Jen is going to give some examples of how we can actually use it in our lives in very practical ways. Jen is also the teacher of an upcoming course we have here at Astrology Hub called Practical Astrological Magic. So you'll learn about that too and see if that might be something you'd like to join. If you wanna hear more of Jen's backstory and understand how she got here as an astrologer,

a doctor, an author, a publisher, all the amazing things that she's doing, you can go to episode four 11 on the Astrology Hub podcast and it was called The Calm Before the Storm. That's episode four 11. Jen, welcome to the Astrology Hub podcast. It's so great to have you here. Thank you for having me again. I love talking with you,

Amanda. Oh, it's so much fun all the time. Okay, Jen, so let's start with the big picture. What is astrological magic? What do you mean by that? Where did it start? Let's, let's just go there first. Astrological magic is a combination of an magical approach to the world of intentionally, or maybe perhaps it's not just limited to like your own private intention because there's a material component to performing magic,

but it's this concept of manipulating the environment in ways that will produce effects in one's life. That's kind of like the broadest level of engagement. This idea of saying, I can make a change if I intend this to happen, I'm gonna practice these things and then I will see my results, right? So, but there are many scholarly sources that will have lots of range of definition of what magic is and magical thinking versus actual practical magic and things of that nature.

One of my favorite sources for that, that that's actually free if someone wanted to go down that route, is a issue of culture. And cosmos from a conference at the Sophia Center, this conference that was held at the Sophia Center for the study of cosmology and culture actually brought magic into the academic sphere. And it's not the only place that that happens,

but I found a lot of inspiration in my own journey through Astrology and academia. This was the conference that kind of broke things wide open for me, and it took place in 2013 and it was so amazing to have some of the world's biggest scholars talking about what is magic? What is celestial magic versus other kinds of magic? Liz Greene was talking about gemstone talismans,

and you know, you had all of these really amazing academic Astrologers astrologer academics discussing the nuances of various ways to practice this kind of transformation with the celestial sphere in mind. So the thing that makes astrological magic astrological is Astrology. The thing about Astrology is we think Astrology is one thing because it's a noun that sounds singular. However, when you really get into it,

every single culture has had an astrological practice of some kind. So we have to think about it actually as a multiplicity of Astrology. And so Nick Campion, one of the foremost scholars of the history of Astrology, has two kinds of Astrology. There's chaotic Astrology and cosmic cosmos based Astrology. And so we have this tradition of Hellenistic Astrology based off of Mesopotamian Egyptian practices that has a cosmic order.

There's a symbolic profection and there's kind of a, a platonic or aristotelian like mathematical basis for observing the sky in these ways. And then there are other cultures, like my favorite example would be Micronesia has an island culture where the weather is quite unpredictable. And so that approach to having meaning through magical practice with the sky is very different than what we're gonna find in cultures that are more established.

Another culture that, a world culture that has a very established kind of Astrology is the Mayan culture, and they include Venus with the Sun and Moon. And so their mathematics are actually different than we have with the Egyptian based practices today. So when we look at it together, I believe that astrological magic began with human beings being human honestly. Because we look up,

we have a calendar, we want things to get better, we want good things to happen and not bad things. And so, you know, if you see, you say like, Oh, I'm gonna go back and do Babylonian Astrology. Well, Babylonian Astrology is always already magical because they were doing omens, they were trying to see when the famine would come or when the waters would flood and avoid the bad things and have the good things.

And in fact, even just now, there was a practice of removing the king during an eclipse and then replacing it after the eclipse was over. And we've seen in the UK, they had a prime minister who left, they installed a different one, she was only there for 44 days, and now we're having a new one. And it's like this interesting kind of switch,

right? Of, of, oh, you know, we wanna have someone stay in power, so we're gonna put a sort of other person in place in that way. Then when you get down to another level, like, okay, practical astrological magic, just like the class that's coming up, we have to think about the class of individual practicing this because not everyone in the history of humankind was literate in the same ways,

but I do believe that they had magical experiences so that they were able to say like, Okay, they might not think of it as magic, but they were actually doing something that had a basis in some kind of hopeful magical thinking, right? And so we have different traditions developed, and recently on the interwebs, some kind of Twitter, roddy slash you know,

Facebook group, international warfare, we had various people arguing about what astrological magic is and who can claim it. So that was also very fascinating in the context of our conversation today, because it's like, who can say that Astrology is limited even in its own kind of practice, and then magic in its own kind of practice, and then discount other approaches,

right? I'm very much about multiplicity and inclusion and my colleague JD Kelly put on a conference called Astro Maia, and he also believes in an inclusive widening definition of access to astrological practice inside of magical practice. And the conversations between those two worlds, Oh my gosh, you just said so much and I have so many questions. It, it's amazing and,

and yes, I hear what you're saying like in fighting about what is and isn't and what who gets to, and that feels like it's going into a very like dogmatic, sort of frozen realm, right? And and that actually feels already like it's not aligned with what magic is. Yeah. Which is much more living and breathing. So Jen question, you said that there's ordered Astrology based on the cosmos and,

and Rick Levine's the one who taught me the definition of the word cosmos, which is order and beauty, which is amazing. But then you said there's also chaotic Astrology. Yeah. What's That? So this is a kind of Astrology that doesn't have that mathematical sense of precision to it, and it's not necessarily interested in prediction. One example would be, okay,

this is a coming of aged ceremony that needs to happen with the new Moon, but it's cloudy today. So we'll wait until we see the Moon and then we'll do the ritual instead of doing it anyway because we know that the Moon is behind the clouds, right? Hmm. It's a kind of idea, or even including things like comets, which I love.

Parels is used to call comets star sperm. That's like really awesome image. Thanks Ferris Celsius, right? Like fertilizing the earth. There we go. Yes. You know, and we have this vision of, of chaos, right? There are certain factors that don't fit with that Greek model of perfect spheres. You know, the, the sub leary sphere was the only thing that could be polluted and chaotic and messy.

And then suddenly we get telescopes and Galileo breaks the world wide open and we have Ella Nova and the 16 hundreds where Kepler sees a star, a super nova that's only there for a short amount of time. And it's like, wait a minute, something changed in the celestial spheres. Heavens, what do we do more magic, right? So yeah, there's like chaotic celestial phenomena that don't fit that idea of perfect order.

Yeah. Jen, what do you say to, okay, you, you, you used words like omen. There's this idea of like sort of manipulating reality in a way. Yeah. And what do you say to anyone who, who, who has associated those types of things with negative qualities or evil? I mean I, I'm born and raised Catholic and those kinds of things were like,

this is why Astrology was like quote unquote the devil's work, you know? Yeah. And, and black magic and all these things. And then also what about the, like this is just humans trying to think that they have some sort of control over reality, but we actually don't. So can you just address both of those kind of ideas? Yeah,

I think that there is an inherent power in astrological practice because you are tuning into the way the world works. And so over the course of time, at least in the Western tradition, we have tuned into what some Astrologers call archetypes. But if you pay attention to celestial factors, you can seem oddly intelligent when you predict something and then it happens. And that's spooky because how did you know that was gonna happen?

When I see clients even, and I'm not even doing astrological magic when I see somebody for an hour and they go, How did you know that about me? And it's like, I don't actually know There's an opacity to it. I'm reading the symbol and the symbol is speaking a message that's for the person I'm, it's not for me. I'm actually a conduit for that.

And it's eerie to be able to see the future, know the future and and be accurate. And so that kind of power is threatening to political power and religious power in other forms of power. So there's a quality to magic that's always been for the oppressed and the people who want to change the power dynamic. And then we get into high magic and low magic because there are kinds of astrological magic that are as simple as,

I'm going to plant a seed during a new Moon cuz I want it to grow. And the Moon will feed that seed. And it's very simple, it's not evil to plant a seed when the Moon is new, but then you have ceremonial magic that was in the service of the court that was trying to maintain political power. And so then we get into this concept of like,

you know, overriding certain types of forces of nature so that we can, can maintain our hold on, you know, some kind of political domination over a group of people. And you needed to be extremely literate to be able to practice what is called, that's sort of a scholastic image magic, right? You need to have a certain amount of tools,

you have to have certain access to resources and a certain access to being able to read and understand the rituals you're about to partake in. Whereas, you know, people living in town, they still did astrological style magic, they just didn't necessarily have a huge ceremony with the right kinds of like encrusted ruby gemstones and things of that nature, you know? So it's actually accessible to everyone.

But I think also to go back to that idea of evil or superstitious, one thing I like about the astrological magician, Christopher Warnock, who if you don't know him, you should look him up. He does scholastic image magic and he also emphasizes that if it's not in your Chart, it's not likely to be successful. So as much as we can say,

Oh wow, I wanna be as famous as, you know, Alexander the great, it's like, well I don't really have the Chart for that and I don't think any amount of magic I'm gonna do is gonna sustain that effort. I might get there for five minutes or the 15 minutes that everybody does get when they're famous, but it's not gonna be sustainable.

What is sustainable is knowing your Chart and maximizing what you do have. And so I think the smartest astrological magic, which we're gonna talk about in the class, is going to be understanding ourselves and how we can use magic to enhance what is actually in our Chart. So you know, it's like if we think about if, if we're coming from a religious frame and God has a plan for us,

it's like how can we best serve through that plan even in a magical way of engaging with the alive cosmos that he's put his here for? You know, I don't necessarily practice that viewpoint in a religious context, but it's, it's there and it can be worked with inside of an active sort of practice of a, of, of at least the Christian faith I think.

Okay. So Jen, what is the difference between the astrological magic that you practice, that you teach, that you advocate for and these sort of lower forms of magic? Or maybe that maybe it's considered high magic. It probably is, but I wanna say less well intentioned forms of magic. Like what is the key differentiator between those two types? Because as we know,

people have been using this power for good and some have been using it not for good. Yeah, I do think that what you send out comes back. So wishing ill through magic or trying to dominate or shut down is not really my interest at all because I'm not interested in getting that back from the world. So, and that's where people come into things like what's known as black magic or sort of cursing or you know,

wishing any kind of like ban or ill on others. And that can be useful for some, but my approach comes from a more, the perspective, which is a Greek person named the Abacus has the best book about theology and he's talking about this idea of ascension through the celestial spheres so that you can almost purify your soul and get to know those planetary energies.

So I'll talk a lot about that because there's a way in which that's present in what Robert Allen Bartlett, the Alchemist who lives near me in, in Washington state called celestial agriculture, which is alchemy. So when you are working with plant magic and astrological magic together, you really do become a better astrologer actually, right? Like it's not even about doing magic for a purpose of like,

I want to achieve money or I would like to achieve my best job or whatever it might be. Or I need a partner and, and I'm really actually against something called coercive love magic because it's not very nice to make someone fall in love with you. So you know, we have to be careful around our intentions and what we're trying to achieve, but the is based off of self knowledge and becoming the best version of you and the best version of your Chart.

So if you realize like, oh, you know, in certain types of Astrology I have a Venus problem. I spent five years working on that because I wanted to figure out how Venus worked in a way. And like right now as we're talking, Venus is not in great shape, right? And so, but I have an embodied knowledge of that because I used astrological magic but also alchemical approaches to figure out like,

okay, what is the Venus part of this whole world we're living in? And then what's the Mars part and what's the Mercury part? And once you can put all of that together, you start to get wise. And this was another thing magicians used to be called cunning about wisdom. Like, should I act or not? And, and if you're tuned to the astrological weather,

which you are part of every week, right? And was like, Oh, I over time, that in itself is a kind of astrological magic because you like, oh, it's moons and tourists. I'm not gonna do that right now, but I'm wait till it's in Gemini, you know? So You're basically saying we're already doing that at Astrology app,

Pretty much everybody I think, Well there's the thing, you know, inside of some of the academic studies of Astrology, they accused of all Astrology being magical because this idea that somehow what's up there is a causally related to what we're doing down here is absurd to people coming from a hard science worldview. The a causal connection principle, which young termed synchronicity doesn't make any rational sense to somebody who needs cause and effect.

But all the skeptics who start practicing Astrology in order to debunk it turn into our lovely colleague Sam Reynolds and become the best advocates for it, right? Like he's my favorite skeptic turned practitioner because he's so open about his journey through skepticism into understanding that this is amazing. And so it's kind of always already magical in the same way that I think humans are actually always already magical.

So, but I mean that's a big, big definition and a huge thing to say. So I think my personal practice is more about using an awareness, I like that word aware, just this focus of attention on. And then you just take different elements of the celestial factors, whether it's fixed stars, lunar mansions, planets, various elements of looking at things,

met cycles with eclipses, right? And you can start to sort of know more and become a little more calm in yourself and know who you are and and who you're not. And, and I think that's healing in a me in a huge spiritual way. Hmm. Okay. Let's talk about some examples, like give us some examples of the way that we can use astrological in our lives.

And if you have examples from your own life that might be really helpful, but let's like bring it to the ground and and help people understand how, how practical it really is. So I have some show tell. Oh yeah. One way that I have concretized my practice is by making telematic oils. And this goes into you, the best magic that you can do is already in your Chart.

So I was born with a Saturn Pluto conjunction in Libra, which every anyone who's doing a math or looking at an ephemeris can figure out that yes, I just turned 40, but in 2020 in January there was a conjunction of Saturn in Pluto in Capricorn. And so I did an astrological magical ritual to seal that in a bottle so I have it here.

And so Parisel said that when you have a Tasman oil, it functions like a battery. So I chose this size to bottle it in and I made this little symbol of Saturn Pluto together, which you might be able to see. Yeah. And it has pomegranate oil and indigo and some scorpion ground up and also some trini tight sand, which was from the first atomic explosion.

And so in the sky, when Saturn came to the point of Pluto's discovery in 1945, the United States unleashed nuclear bombs on Japan. So this idea of nuclear explosion is part of the Tasman qualities of a Saturn Pluto conjunction. And so for most people who were paying attention just after January of 2020, the entire world shut down due to a global pandemic. For those of us who were born with that na,

it was like, welcome to our world. And this contains then this manifestation of the Saturn Pluto conjunction all of the intensity with which it works. And so if people do go back and listen to the episode four 11, like I do a lot of things and I have a lot of energy to do those things because that is something that's in my Chart.

So this was my medicine to make, this was my astrological magical contribution because I'm personally matching what the environment was like in January of 2020. And so I can infuse it with that kind of thing. And going back to what Parels has said, if you were to smear this oil onto a surface and then do another thing underneath it, you can harness the power of that astrological moment without it being that time again,

right? Cause we're not gonna have that conjunction for another 38 years. So at this time we have this manifestation, this quality of like intense manifestation, which can also be something that's like very shut down. But it's also, you know, what are you containing where we're trying to contain our breath, but we're also, so many people went through a transformation of self where they realized this isn't the work I wanna do.

I love working from home, you know? And so there's this like really interesting renaissance that we're not even seeing the fruits of yet from people stopping what they were doing and focusing deeply on what do I want to do, right? And so other examples are I made a tincture of nettle when Mars was in Scorpio. So it's a little, you know,

nettle inside of a thing that looks like this when it's incubating and then you strain it and bottle it. This is actually mugwort. So just picking an herb and learning about that herb, it's affiliated with a, with a planet, right? And then you kind of say, Okay, cool, I'm in the Mars mood. Let me figure out what Mars is about.

Mars is in Scorpio right now. I'm gonna go hang out with some Mars plants, work with that. And in the process of action of just doing it, you start to understand Mars better. In the process of making that Saturn Pluto oil, I got to sense my own Chart in a new way that like really kind of made it clear like, oh wow,

this is, you know, there's a lot of manifestation power. And I'm sitting in a building now that is related to that kind of manifestation power because the thing that I really wanted was to start an astrological library. So I did, right? And the more you can get to know yourself, the more you can maximize that. And it's not related just to planets.

So I have another piece of show and tell here. This is an oil, this is called a mother bottle. And this is various like sub manic oils that I made of like bay leaf and some frankincense and other things. But in here you'll see a little dot that is a piece of the asteroid Vesta, and that works with contagious magic. So there's the idea of sympathetic magic.

This is like this. And then there's the contagious magic. So like this little tiny piece of Vesta that was on the asteroid Vesta, which makes up 6% of all meteorites that fall to earth is contagiously touching all that oil. So if you touch this oil, you've basically touched Vesta, the asteroid. So I went and I did this like months long process of like,

like sub telematic oils of like bay leaf oil from leaves collected by a friend's mom who's a second generation witch and all this other things, you know, and just kind of composed it over the course of time and meditation to really feel what is vest about and vest's phenomenal, you know, and it, but it, it was the astrological magical sort of devotional developing a relationship to Vesta.

I had seven different bottles and seven different layers of vest's, asteroids sort of meteorites that had come from the crust or the center or even deeper layers of the actual asteroid. And just meditated on the planets in relationship to those things. And figured out, you know, week after week lunation after lunation, what felt right and when were they done and all of this,

you know? And so Besa was in Virgo for eight months, a couple years ago, and that's when this all went down. And I realized like it got some very powerful messages from Vesta as an entity saying, it's not about virginity, this is a mistake. It's about not being distracted. Like the concept of hearth and focus is way more important than the idea of whatever sort of moral concept of virginity is there,

right? And so then I started writing articles and talking about it and sharing my knowledge of Vesta with people because we need to rid ourselves of this moral component of like, Oh, if you're doing Vesta stuff, you can't have sex. I'm like, you just can't get pregnant, right? Like, that's the thing. It's not about not having sex,

it's about not getting pregnant. Because it took me becoming a mother to understand as well, like when you have a child, you will be permanently interrupted for the rest of your life. You Know? So it's hard to be a Vestal virgin if you have somebody calling you saying, Mom, where's my, you know, gloves. Like, okay, well find them yourself,

You know? Right. But that idea of focus and then it's about the focus more than anything else, and not about the Virginity, but what I'm hearing you say, which is, is it's illustrating the point that what you're doing with this astrological magic, I mean, there's many layers of what you're doing, but one of the outcomes is this direct relationship with the planetary energies so that you are no longer at the mercy of somebody else's interpretation of what these things mean.

And maybe somebody else's agenda with like creating a meaning around certain energies that you're actually able to get a direct download from Vista and say, Hey, what are you about? What, what part of you do you want me to share with people? Yeah. You know, what, what message do you have that that needs to come through me as a conduit for you?

I mean, this is a whole different level of Astrology and I just, I can see that there's, there's a lot of people that get into Astrology and get very overwhelmed with the immense technical, you know, details and they get way up in their head. And I'm not saying that that's bad, because it does seem like somewhat of a necessary phase to really understand the technical breakdown of things and how it's all working.

However, it, this brings it back into the body, it brings it back into a direct communion. It brings it back into a place where you can actually own it. Like, like it's yours. That's your Astrology Jen. You know that that's your Astrology that you're cultivating, which is so beautiful. The other thing that I'm hearing you say is that it also helps us get more intimate with our,

our unique makeup. You know, what is your magic to do and what, what will that maximize in your experience here on earth during your life, Which is beautiful. I mean, you know, we look at these at our charts and it's like, Oh wow, well I, I might have the potential to do this kind of thing or that kind of thing.

And what I'm hearing you say is that this is taking a lot of intention and a lot of care to focus on what you would like to cultivate in yourself and as supported by your Chart, which then it's like this perfect storm of like, you're designed for this and you're bringing your intention and you're bringing this sort of unseen, mysterious, magical component of the universe,

right? And you're bringing 'em all together so that you can have these experiences on earth, which like, yeah. Wow, that's amazing. Like, that just sounds so cool. Let me ask you, so how, how experienced do you need to be with Astrology in order to do this? Cuz what I'm, from what I'm hearing from you, I'm like,

God, where are you even, you're getting a piece of Vesta and you're like going out and getting some like, like piece of some nuclear like rock. I don't sand like, like a how are you even doing that? B Like, does everybody really have the time or energy or ability to do those things? See like your level of knowledge of like the intricacies,

it, it feels very high magic to me at this point. And so for, for people coming in new, it's like, am I gonna be able to do this? Like, is there, is there a simple form of it? Is there a like beginner entry level kind of place to start that where we can grow into where you are? Yeah,

I mean, I'm not anywhere higher or I, I would think the kind of approach I'm taking is actually quite low because I, this is from my garden. I mean, I, I'm privileged enough to have a garden, but it's from my garden and, and I wanna share this entry level sort of approach because you can start with what you've got and you know,

that's what the class is gonna be about actually. It's like just beginning with what you have. And it's more about your, like I said before, awareness and choosing one thing and then it leads to the next. And journey will show you what comes next, what comes after that, what comes after that. It's an unfolding, but it's also a kind of where do we begin and what do we need to know next and where does that take us?

And so it's not trying to do all of the astrological magic all at once in the same way that we don't grow all of our adult teeth when we're born, right? Like it takes time to get through this transit and then pursue that, you know, transit and, and work with the energies present at that time. And a lot of it too is like as you need to know a thing,

it will come to you in the process. And that is the, the path to mastery is that you just choose something you're interested in and begin and then take it to the next level and say, How can I make it better next time? Or what messed up or, you know, what was successful and I wanna replicate it, but oh wow,

I have to wait two years for that Mars to come back to that position. And, and so you just become wise through the, the actual doing of it. But I'll tell you this, the practice of pursuing alchemy with my astrological background, even just in this simple most, you know, bare bones alchemical working, made me a better astrologer because of what you're saying about embodiedness and this idea of understanding,

like, oh, that's what, like people say, they wanna have an exalted Mars Mars' job is to be annoying. Do you wanna be good at being annoying? Like, cause people who have exalted mars's can do that really well, right? Right. Like they don't even have to blink an eye and they're like instantly annoying apologies to everybody out there who has a good Mars,

good bad Mars, right? So we have also like these moral terms that get lacked onto what is called essential dignities, like a planet in rulership versus right now we're having a conversation with Venus in Scorpio, like, ooh, don't do any Venus magic because Venus is in Scorpio maybe. Or maybe we need to talk to Venus and say, Hey man,

you were just in Libra, conjunct the Sun and then you just got the air knocked outta your lungs. You know, like, let's talk, how are you feeling? Right? She needs, she needs help right now from us and our attention, not necessarily to make a, a battery of her being down and out cuz who would want to preserve that in a,

in a talisman, right? But I don't think people need to make talismans to do astrological magic. I think that the talisman is a useful tool to work towards and achieve at some point, but simply just becoming in a devotional connection to the planet day by day and having some kind of simple attention towards the factor that you'd like to pay attention to. Like for example,

if it's not planetary magic, it could be lunar mansions, right? And then you have, you know, if you're working on one specific lunar mansion, you'll have a couple days with it and then you'll have to wait for a month. And so what happens in that interval? A lot of learning takes place subterranean, right? Like when I'm teaching a foreign language,

like I taught German at uc, Berkeley for a while, I would tell my students who were frustrated that they weren't fluent yet, just go to sleep and go do something else. Take the summer off, come back to school in the fall. There's a lot going on under the surface in your brain to like recalibrate and make those connections and you can't force it.

You have to kind of let it wash over you through, as you were saying this like embodied experience. Yes. You know, that's one of the things I tell our inner circle members all the time, it's like, just be in for the journey of discovery. Enjoy that trust that as you're exposed to this language, you know, rhythmically and consistently that someday you're gonna look back and be shocked that you can understand some of the conversations that we're having here that you couldn't understand before.

Or it's like you might get through a whole entire mastery class and go, Oh my God, I got that whole thing. Which is great, but it's, it's not a goal, it's not like a linear goal-oriented study. Like it just, and if you go in with that mentality, you're gonna be frustrated and you're gonna be like, this isn't for me Or you're gonna be surprised that you thought you knew a lot of stuff and it took a couple more cycles of,

you know, Astrology in your world to like kind of knock you down a few levels and and show you a little more, you know, That did, I didn't even, I mean just to be, I don't think we've shared this together before, but I started learning Astrology when I was 15 and I didn't start seeing clients for the first 19 years of my Astrology.

Wow. And I only started seeing clients in 2015. Oh my god. Yeah. So the whole time you were just learning and, and of course I was just in love with it. I was in love with it and I was that student who was in class. Like, is there a way I can bring Astrology into the conversation? And I was that person,

right? Like constantly, right? Yeah. Especially in medieval German and in medieval German there's a lot of Astrology still in the drinking water at that time. And so my professor Elaine 10 knew, she's like, Oh, Jen's gonna say something about Astrology now. I'm like, Yeah, I found it. Look at this text, let's talk about this one.

Because people didn't know what it was. So I was trying to teach from the bench, kind of like Astrology in class to all these academics as I went through and just be that instigator that's, but you, when you're in that constellation, you can't be out. You have to be closeted because you can't believe what you're studying. Right? Like if you're studying witchcraft,

you don't believe that, do you? And it's like you have to practice it to actually understand what you're working with. Right? Right. Yeah. So the fact that I was able to do Astrology made my academic study of it better than, than it ever could have been from just somebody who didn't understand what was going on. So a lot of academic prejudice against Astrology or even global,

like outside of academic prejudice against Astrologers, cuz people don't know how to do it. But if we were teaching people how to do it from jump street from kindergarten, then we wouldn't be misunderstanding like what these things are. Right? Like it would be kind of a common knowledge situation. Completely agree. Yes. Okay. So Jen, tell us a little bit more about the class if,

if any, of you're interested in joining this class that's happening at Astrology Hub this October. If you're watching this video sometime in the future, it's still available so you can go and and access it. But it's Astrology Hub dot com slash magic. And tell us a little bit about how the class is gonna be structured for people that are interested in potentially joining.

So on November 15th, we're gonna have a 90 minute session that's kind of a me delivering a lay of the land and walking you through this practical steps to take to begin. And hopefully by the end of that time you will have a mini syllabus for yourself and some home study to look at your Chart. And the next day we're gonna have some q and a and live discussion of charts in class together so that they'll be some practical application with people and also answering any questions that came up about the material shared on the first day.

But there's also a bonus of, I'm creating a bonus that is about, on the one hand, creating these oils, these dynamic talismans that I just held up to you. And on another, I'm calling it a memory Pallas, which is an early modern technique of guiding you through learning about each planet and, and sort of like allowing you to have an experience of it through reading that's somewhat siloized,

a little bit fictional, but you can get a sense of like meeting the planets and then including them in your social sphere. Hmm. And what's a real realistic outcome that someone could expect from the workshop? Having a plan to start doing astrological magic literally the next day? Hmm. Ooh, that's, Or even that even after they're done watching, right?

Like, you know, developing a personal approach to where to where to begin, where's your entry point, right? I'm gonna show you all these doors, you can choose which one you wanna open. Ooh, so good. Okay. And for anybody who, between now and then, or even after the workshop wants to explore more, like are there must read books,

are there like go to resources that we can do to either prep for the workshop and or continue after the workshop? I will compile a list of resources for sure. There are so many, but right off of the bat, I would say my colleague Caitlin Copak has a website called Sphere and Sundry where she makes astrological talismans that are elected and very professional and her blog has a lot of amazing information about her practice of astrological magic,

which I admire. And that would be a really great resource to just get involved with that community and sort of see what's going on with her and what she's shared on her blog. And Nina Griffin publishes magical elections column in the mountain astrologer magazine, mountain astrologer.com and Nina's an amazing astrological magician as well. So these are two women who are doing amazing things in this industry,

in this field and, and you know, say industry like, yeah it is, it is in this way, you know, you can buy a talisman. I think making your own is, is really healthy to just go through the process of that and we'll talk about that in class. But those two individuals I think are some of the cutting edge players in this industry.

And I think I asked you this in one way, but I'm gonna ask you again just in, in case people are wondering what is the right level of astrological fluency for someone to be able to get the most out of this class? Like could this person, like do they need to have basic Chart reading understanding could they not, could they, you know,

even entry level and if they don't, I want entry level because I believe if you are just beginning Astrology, getting into more Astrology with an astrological magical practice in place will make you a far better astrologer than someone who's not doing that. Okay. So in my sense, know what the seven planets are, have a general sense of what the signs are,

a general sense of the Lu Nation cycle. Like we know about new moons and full moons and this sort of thing, but other than that, everything else will come along. And if someone is more advanced but they don't have a magical component to their practice yet, this would be good for them too. Super easy for them to add it in. Yeah.

Okay. Yeah. Alright. But I really wanna be able to get everybody having this interpersonal relationship with the planets. On the one hand, other celestial factors can come into play, but for this class, this introductory class, we're gonna be focusing mostly on the planets. I was thinking as you were speaking that this, if, if every newbie astrologer or like want to be Astrology teacher or want to be Astrology personality on TikTok or whatever,

if they all had this sort of understanding and foundation and practice, we'd be seeing a lot different things out there on the internet. Like it wouldn't, I Think. So It wouldn't be the level of Astrology that you're seeing proliferated everywhere. So I'm also a huge advocate for anybody that's interested getting started and or if you're more established but you don't have that,

you wanna bring in that astro the magic component that this could be great for you. So Jen, thank you so much. Really looking forward to it. Any of you who are interested, go to Astrology Hub dot com slash magic. Check it out. It's happening November 15th, 2022. But if you miss that date, you're watching this in the future, then just go to that link and you'll be able to access the recordings and you'll be able to get just as much out of it.

If you can't join the live component of the class, that's okay as well. The recording will be available within 24 hours, so you'll be able to just jump right in and get started and have your plan and start your your astrological magic practice the next day. Yay. Yes. So exciting. All right, Jen, thank you so much for joining us.

Thanks all of you for tuning in. Thank you as always for making Astrology a part of your life. We'll see you at the workshop and we'll see you on the next episode. Take care everybody. Hey there, Astrology lover. Did you know that you can learn practical astrological magic here at Astrology Hub? That's right. We're bringing you a hands on workshop where you'll learn everything you need to know to get started with Gensar PhD,

who's been practicing astrological magic for over two decades. I recently asked Jen what students can expect in the upcoming workshop, and here's what she had to say. Magic is a practice of engaging with, I would call, like the forces of the universe in a, in a devotional way to achieve results. I find that engaging with magic just makes your life better on all levels because it really forces you to think about what do you really want?

What is worth doing ritual with, and who are you? Who do you want to become? You know, even the desire to change your circumstances points towards a gap that might need to have be addressed in a magical and a mundane way. I just love that Jen is such an amazing dynamic and inspiring teacher, and I'm so grateful that we get to share her wisdom with you in this workshop.

So if you're interested in learning a hands-on approach to making magic every day, go to Astrology Hub dot com slash magic and enroll in practical astrological magic today. Class starts on November 15th, so don't miss out. Go to Astrology Hub dot com slash magic. We can't wait to see you in class. This podcast is presented by Astrology Hub. You can learn more and find all of our shows at Astrology Hub dot com slash podcast.

If you enjoyed this episode, please rate review and hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform so you can stay up to date on the latest episodes and help more people find the wisdom of Astrology. Thank you for taking the time to do this now. Thank you for being a part of our community and for making Astrology a part of your life.