You’ll learn…

Chapters 📺

0:00 Intro

3:25 The Astrology of Bipolar Disorder – The Book

8:48 How Does Astrology Help with Mental Health

15:49 The Role of Vibrational Astrology

24:02 The Dangers of Self-Diagnosis

27:11 Reframing Trauma

31:11 What Makes Vibrational Astrology Stand Out

34:00 The Hidden Gifts of Neuro Divergence

39:41 Where to Study More

43:52 How to Research Properly

48:44 Outro

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  Transcript

  This transcript is automatically generated. Some miswording might be present.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 0:03
  Welcome to the astrology hub Podcast. I’m Amanda Pua Walsh, founder of astrology hub and your host for our flagship show, we explore the many ways Astrology can support you, and your relationships, career, health, and personal growth. Thanks for tuning in. Well, hello everybody and welcome. I am so pleased to be here today with vibrational astrology specialist and author David Cochran. David has been featured on the astrology hub podcast several times in the past, and I’m really, really grateful to be back here with him today, talking about a very important issue. And and and bridging how Astrology can actually help with this particular thing. So we’re today talking about the astrology of bipolar disorder. And David reached out to me and said, Hey, Amanda, I’ve written this book at which I know is a big culminating moment of years and years of research that David has put into this topic. So I’m very excited to talk about this with all of you today. And before we dive in, if you are not yet a cosmic insider recipient, I highly encourage you to go to astrology hub.com/insider and become one now. You’ll get a weekly overview of the cosmic weather, plus a roundup of all of our podcast episodes for the previous week that we have featured here on the astrology hub Podcast Network, and the cosmic insider is free. So just go to astrology. hub.com/insider and start getting your weekly cosmic weather scoop today. That’s astrology. hub.com/insider. Okay, so David, I wanted to give a little bit of an introduction for David. He is definitely one of the legends one of the leaders in the field of astrology, especially when it comes to research and astrology. So he has been an astrologer for our inner circle membership several times the last time was 2019. He’s an award winning astrologer and has a master’s in research and evaluation methodology from the University of Florida. His practice focuses primarily on vibrational astrology which is fascinating on its own, I highly encourage you to check out David and his YouTube channel and go down the vibrational astrology rabbit hole because it’s fascinating. He’s also authored the book vibrational astrology, the essentials and many other books on topics ranging from the astrology of bipolar bipolar disorder to Astro locality, he was featured on episode 64 of the astrology hub podcast. And the title of that was the vibration of love. So we were talking about vibrational astrology and focused on love and intimate relationships. Again, that’s episode 64. Highly encourage you to check it out. You’ll get more of David’s backstory on that episode, because today we’re going to be really focused on this the topic of bipolar disorder. So welcome, David. It’s great to have you back on the show.

  David Cochrane 3:11
  Hey, Amanda, it’s been too

  Amanda Pua Walsh 3:13
  many years. Too many years for sure. Great to be back. Yep. Yay. Awesome. So let’s start here. What inspired you to focus on bipolar disorder? What how did that begin?

  David Cochrane 3:25
  Okay, how it began is my colleague and dear friend who was also on the what do you call it? The Inner Circle? Circle. I couldn’t think the inner circle just sell Terry. She’s a marriage and family therapist. Some of you may remember Giselle, so just Sal has been an astrologer for decades beautiful person, and has a very busy practice. And she enrolled in my program and vibrational astrology, which a lot of professional astrologers do, because it’s a new world. And towards the end of the program, she started looking at her clients. She has a good number of clients about 30 coins that she has a birth time for from a birth certificate. And she’s looked at them before and she started looking at them with the vibrational astrology. And she asked me, you know, how do we do this research and I started guiding her and guiding her and she found very consistent things in their charts, you know, with her clients, and she has very extensive notes on them. And when they’ve had episodes, we looked at the transits, when things blew up, you know, they had unstable time periods. And it worked so well was so informative. And perhaps more importantly, it was so helpful to Giselle, she was able to see and understand things going on with the client. And then the next thing that happened was we found a database where we already have a database in our software of people with bipolar disorder. And so with that database of hundreds of people, we could test what we saw in the clients See if it was in the charts of the people in the database. And it is amazing. And yeah, that’s what blew our minds is like, oh my god, this is working. And then I’ll just tell you one more part of the story after we did all that, and this is years of work. I mean, you know, one of our chokes was we’re going to be bipolar pretty soon. I mean, I mean, doing this kind of research is so demanding. It’s just incredible. You have to eat sleep and breathe it, you’re unraveling the mystery? Because you might you might wonder, like, why is it so difficult? Think of it this way? Why has no one validated? What we see in astrology is why hasn’t that bridge been crossed? And a lot of people have a lot of reasons. Well, we crossed the bridge. And then then we found or Giselle found 70 more cases of people with bipolar disorder. So we tested our model, this list of things people have, and the amazing thing is that work better with the new data than with the previous data. That never happens in research. I mean, like, it was unbelievable. After we did that, I mean, I literally didn’t sleep for two nights just from excitement. And you’re just like, my mind was blown. I’ve been doing this since 1972. And it gets better and better, better. And then one day, I woke up, and I said, you need to write this down. You know this. This is now ready for Showtime. And I’ll show you the book. There it is. Yay. Oh

  Amanda Pua Walsh 6:24
  my gosh, amazing.

  David Cochrane 6:25
  Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And it’s available everywhere. You know, you can just Google it. And yeah, so that’s the story. Very, very exciting. And it just came out earlier this year. So this, this is all new stuff.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 6:37
  Amazing. So when you were telling the story, Giselle had 30 clients with bipolar disorder, correct, that she was able to get the birth information for.

  David Cochrane 6:48
  So she had 30 people, they weren’t all bipolar, okay. It’s 30 people with various mental illnesses. And this is a real marriage and family therapist, they go through this catalog, and they have to identify it’s very, very, she works with psychiatrists and medical centers. And, you know, it’s very, very formal stuff. And they’re carefully diagnosed and have all these notes and analysis and records of drugs they’ve taken, etcetera. So they were not all bipolar disorder. I don’t remember how many were diagnosed with bipolar disorder, one or two, I think it was about 12 to 15.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 7:26
  Okay. And so then you were able to find your database of people that were diagnosed with bipolar disorder, but that you also had the astrological information about and then you started to see trends is what I’m understanding, you start to see trends in their chart,

  David Cochrane 7:41
  right? There are these two French people, one of the viewers probably know their names. McHale and friends was golf on the famous golf record. Well, the Gauguin’s collected enormous amounts of data. And back in those days, I think this was around the 60s or so there wasn’t as much privacy in any country, so they could go to a hospital, and they could write for birth records, and they could just get the data. So they went to a hospital. And a lot of people you know, were born live, grow up and get married, right there in Paris. And they actually do everything right there. So they had the bird, they were able to get the birth times for 700 people with bipolar disorder. So it was the data collected by the golf course, what we did is we took what we saw, we were seeing with a dozen people, you know, with a dozen people you don’t know, right, but in your heart, you know, I mean, you know, just like you do any astrology, it’s like, there it is. There’s the behavior. We watched the transits. When the transit stated they have, you know, a breakdown or an episode. Anyway, we applied the formula to the 700. And at number one, it worked. And number two, we refined the formula, we got it better.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 8:48
  So David, how does understanding this about someone’s chart or about trends in bipolar disorder and how you can see those those in an astrological chart? How does that actually help? Like, how does it help the individual with it? How does it help the therapist who’s helping the person? How does it help family members who may be supporting someone with bipolar disorder? What have you seen

  David Cochrane 9:14
  the help is enormous. It’s, it’s incredible. I’ll give you an example. Suppose someone has Saturn in a strong we call seven vibration. In Vedic Astrology, they call it a sub Tom’s a chart also known as subtitles, and bicep curls and triceps. And when someone has Saturn with two or three other planets connected together in the subtitle kinds of aspects, they tend to withdraw, they withdraw. They want to be alone. They’ll often just read a book at night. They’ll want to be quiet and secluded. And then what happens with bipolar disorders, they often have that and then they have some wild, crazy, uncontrollable thing. So the analysis was like crazy The simple there literally have one configuration that’s out of control. And another one that pulls away. And in looking at it, what we realized is that by Bipolar disorder is not like a disease like getting a virus, it’s an energetic system. And it’s, it’s not as much a pathology as we say it is until it gets too extreme. I mean, if you have BD two and it gets really extreme, yes, it’s clearly dysfunctional, but BD one, it’s there’s a lot of actual positive potential. And well, here’s what happened. If someone has bipolar disorder, and they have Saturn in seven vibration, the therapist may say, Oh, you need to get out. Go out with your friends on Friday night. Oh, you used to go bowling, go bowling did it? Oh, you like to dance, get out, get out, get out. If they have Saturday and seven vibration that’s going to hurt them.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 10:50
  Wow, interesting is going

  David Cochrane 10:53
  to hurt them. What they need to do is a need to be alone for periods of time. And to enjoy their aloneness, get a good book, watch a movie. I mean, there can be another person there, you know, but it’s relatively quiet, you’re just engaged with something. Don’t just sit there and pout about how you don’t like your father. He was abusive, and blah, blah, blah, and just rerun these old scripts. That’s what leads to the depression, they go away and then they start recycling and stuff and it doesn’t go anywhere, find something to engage, what do you enjoy, you know, to a games you would find something right, read whatever it is play a musical instrument, anything that requires that discipline, quiet and withdrawing meditation. I know one fella was counseling, he said to me, he walks his dog every night for about an hour. And his dog really doesn’t want to go for a walk for an hour every night. But he does he needs that’s his way of shutting down. You know, it’s the sun has set, its quiet, you’re just feeling the breeze. That’s it he anyway, if the person does not have that, and the depression is caused by something else, then going out will be great. And yes, they can go out. But the more important thing is how can you be alone and be happy in your aloneness because that ain’t going away. If something’s in your chart, you’re programmed. It’s like a genetic code cosmic genetic. So the health is enormous, because we can go right to the person. And when you connect with the person, it’s like always on Oh, my God experience, you know, they know that you know, and you’re right on the same wavelength with them. And it’s so affirming,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 12:31
  right, I can see it affirming in several ways. I mean, part of I have chills all over my body, because one of the things that you’re saying is that they need to honor their chart, they need to honor their wiring. And if they honor their wiring, and don’t try to be different and don’t try to fit into some other mold, then that’s where they can express those different aspects of themselves. That may seem like they’re, they’re contradicting each other. But maybe they’re just they’re essential. They’re equally essential. And for whatever reason, cultural programming or whatever, they don’t feel like they can do the thing that they need to do to feel strong and healthy in themselves. The other thing that you’re saying that just really resonates is that just to be seen, you know, just to be seen and understood, and like, Hey, you have these two conflicting forces within yourself, that must feel really hard to manage at times. And it’s there, you know, it’s there, for you to learn how to navigate, you know, for you to actually, again, honor these two very different aspects of yourself, that doesn’t make you wrong or bad. There’s just is what it is. And so I can see how having someone really reflect that very deeply to someone would be would be almost enough to just move out of that place that you were talking about before, like the rehashing of all the things that are wrong, and maybe just like giving yourself permission to be exactly where you need to be.

  David Cochrane 13:58
  Right, in every case is different. Some days, people don’t even realize that they’re that way. Time of being alone. It’s just that they’re crying, and they’re miserable. So if you say to them, you need time alone, say no, I don’t I hate being alone. I have no desire to be alone. Are you alone? Yeah, I’m going along. Every night. I am depressed, and I go off by myself. So they don’t even recognize what’s going on because they haven’t developed a good habit with it. So one of the keys is recognition, affirmation being seen, and developing good habits. Ah, yeah, yeah. Because it’s not all you know, woowoo kumbaya was around the campfire. Oh, we see each other. We’re all blissed out. End of story. No, there’s work to be done. And, you know, it’s just like, if you have a bad diet, breaking the diet, if you smoke cigarettes, you know, it’s bad for you. We all have bad habits. Life is about but you know, what we can do with the client is we help them find good habits and we brainstorm a lot of times we’ll say, how about this? How about that? And they go, yes. You know, when I was a kid, I always wanted to play piano. And then then I wasn’t very good. And then I was just like to get into that. But you really want to play piano, don’t you? I really do. I really do. I really do. Get quiet, give yourself permission. That’s when the tears start forming. That’s when the realization comes, you know? So what’s wonderful about this? A lot of people often say, Oh, David is a scientist research, very computer programmer. He’s going to label everything. He’s going to put it in a box. He’s going to kill the soul with a stroke. No, it’s bro. It’s just the opposite. It’s just the opposite. And knowing what’s going on doesn’t put you in a bog. It’s like setting you free because you see what the options are. We’re just understanding more clearly what’s going on. That’s all

  Amanda Pua Walsh 15:49
  David, it sounds like vibrational astrology specifically has been key to this research, does it? Is it only when you’re looking through the vibrational astrology lens that you can see these patterns? Or do they also translate to the other different ways that people might practice astrology?

  David Cochrane 16:07
  Wow, that’s a great question. So far, we have been able to develop these models that work so beautifully, only with vibrational astrology. And I just did a huge study of married couples, the Gauquelin has collected 19,000 cases of married couples, can you believe this? And we have that in our software. And we have things to search. So I said to myself about a year ago, I said, I’m going to validate Sodaq signs because I know they work. I’m going to validate it. I’m tired of everything just being these step tiles and whatever. And I looked at the moon signs and the Sun Sign the sun and I couldn’t validate anything. So you know, we know it’s there. And you know, I’ve done Vedic Astrology or Vedic Astrologer friends, I would love love, love to be using other ideas, ideas from modern, psychological, Vedic Hellenistic, and show that we could see whatever it is, we’ve just did research on heart disease. We’re doing research on eating disorders, we’re seeing the patterns. And it’s amazing when you read their biographies, how they describe the particular problems that they had, and they ran into as the details of those configurations. So answer finally after No, I talk a lot. But the bottom line is we’re only using these vibrational astrology ideas so far would we would love to use other ideas.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 17:30
  What I find interesting about that, is that vibrational astrology, or at least the way that you’re practicing and teaching vibrational astrology is relatively new on the scene, right? I mean, I know it’s it’s ancient principles, but it the actual way that you you put it together is relatively new. But it’s almost like we’re ready for this link to be made, you know, we’re ready for it. And that vibrational astrology is one of those keys that we need in order to make these links, right when the technology supports it, right? Like we didn’t, we didn’t have the weight away to gather all this data and run analyses, and all these things that we need in order to validate astrology. But it seems like it’s all coming together at the perfect time. For us to really be able to use it as a supportive tool in so many different areas of life.

  David Cochrane 18:20
  You are so 100% Correct that I couldn’t say it any better, is that the things that we are looking at, you cannot see without a computer number one, you need the accuracy of a computer. Number one, it would take you months just to find half these things. You know, it’s just the patterns are so beautiful, so intricate, so detailed, there was no way to see it, you have to have the databases. I’ve done all the time writing the software and making it all work. And let me say one more thing about this. Something has surprised me about after we came up with the book a few months ago. Data scientists are excited about this. We’re starting a nonprofit Institute with data scientists. So academics have actually responded with more enthusiasm so far than the astrologers. And this just like blew my mind. It’s like what you know, and they’re connected with major university top universities. And so we are going to have a research institute, we’re planning to present this to major universities and cross disciplinary lectures, and it’ll be a nonprofit, and we think that people will be donating. So we’re moving into the mainstream, because they’re reading the book and going, Oh, my God looks like a works.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 19:40
  Why do you think they’re particularly like, I mean, why do you think they’re interested now? And, and I mean, this must just really open up something for them in order to actually more effectively treat people or care for people. Like why why do you think they’re interested now?

  David Cochrane 19:57
  You know, I think the big reason is, if you You love something and you’re on the inside of it. You have a language you have a style, you have a way of talking. You have a way of referring to things. And most of us were several hats. Some of us you know, a Reiki healer and astrologers, nutritionists and astrologers, economists, astrologers, and I’m a data scientist and an astrologer. And so when I write the book, the book is very simple. It’s simple. There’s no big math or whatever. But when a data scientist reads it, they feel like, wow, this is like totally comfortable. Because it’s, we speak the same language. So when I say, you know, we’re not interested in p values, we’re interested in confidence levels, and this is evidence based is not science. These are some of the ideas and they’re presented very simple way. They’re gonna Yes, yes, yes. And then here’s a, here’s our first study in itself, not convincing, but gives us a hint. And they go, Yes, that’s what happened with my, my genetics research for the university. I got a hint. And then they can’t wait to the next chapter. And in the next chapter, we’ll see where this hint where it’s like a suspense story. You know, when one of these data scientists said he couldn’t put it down, he was, you know, was literally up all night, because what happens next? What happens? And then he then you’re actually cheering because you know, the same? You’ve been through the same thing. And you’ll he did it, he found the model work? Yes. Just like when I was doing my PhD, he was getting all depressed and everything. And nothing’s more when you go through his ups and downs. So why? Why are they getting excited? Because it’s now in their language, why isn’t in their language? Because it happens to be my language. Let me say one more thing. Sometimes people will say, why are you doing this scientific thing? You’re trying to prove astrology? Oh, my God, that is the most sorry, idiotic thing you can say. Sorry, but it’s idiotic. Because like, you don’t do research to prove something, you do research, because you’re curious, you want to know, you want to find out how astrology works. And, and we believe that using these methods, combined with seeing clients, which is extremely important to validate, by the way, doesn’t replace what we do it supplements it and makes more Zoomer finding out, I just want to find my kid. I’m curious, I want to know what the heck is going on. That’s why we are trying to prove something to somebody else. Oh, my God, what a waste of your life. That would be.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 22:23
  David, I love your childlike enthusiasm, and curiosity. So for our community, David was one of the one of the first astrologers that I spoke to years ago, you know, he was in that that initial cohort of astrologers that I got introduced to, and I was just like, whoa, this man, first of all, so intelligent Second of all, so enthusiastic and passionate and excited about this topic. This is so inspiring that you’ve been doing this since 1972. And you’re really still so enthusiastic about it. So thank you for opening up doors. And thank you for following your curiosity. I mean, I think that’s, that’s how any amazing discoveries happen. So I’m so grateful that you’re continuing to follow that, because you’re uncovering some incredible links that wouldn’t be uncovered. Otherwise, I remember saying to you, early on, when I first started getting into astrology, because I have a little bit more of an analytical bent to me, I have my my master’s is in psychology. And so it was very research base, everything had to be No, but so I kind of came into it with like, gosh, are there any studies like has anybody actually done any research on this? Because it seems like it’d be something that would be quite easy to validate. And then when I met you, I was like, Oh, yes. Like, there are people doing research. And these are like, you know, this is real deal research, you’re not going to do lightweight research. I know, David, because you’re so committed to it being true. You know, you don’t you aren’t just trying to prove something you really want to know for the sake of knowing. Right? So why why fabricate or fluff it up? When you don’t? That’s not your point. You’re not that’s not your point.

  We have a comment from Leah moonlight that I wanted to just run by you and get your thoughts on. So she says I was diagnosed with borderline personality disorder years ago, the more I’ve learned about astrology, I’ve come to realize every symptom or trait of BPD is basically my eighth house, Scorpio trait or other aspect. So I mean, I know bipolar can be extraordinarily debilitating. I actually have a cousin who was diagnosed with bipolar early on in his life and has struggled with it his entire life. He’s struggled both equally with bipolar disorder and with the medication that has been prescribed to him to treat bipolar. So it’s just a really challenging situation all around. But I’m wondering how much you see or how much you’ve experienced, could potentially be misunderstanding of, of something that is basically astrological traits that can be expressed many different ways and that If people understood how to express the the spectrum of their astrological design, that maybe some of the what sometimes can be misunderstanding or misdiagnosis could be avoided. And I just love to hear your thoughts.

  David Cochrane 25:16
  Well, this is a big one, I think where we’re headed as a human family is towards the idea more of healing, instead of suppressing symptoms, or getting something at the last step, you know, something that inhibits some neurotransmitter or something, you know, you take a drug, and it affects your biochemistry, at some level, is like a sledgehammer approach, you’re kind of going in there, and, and just knocking out some, you know, biological or neurological process. That’s brilliant work, that anybody could figure that out and can do that. And it brings tremendous relief to our people. So I’m not knocking it, but I think there is evolution, things get better and better and better. And I think that ultimately, medicine will move more towards healing. What is the ultimate? Cause? Why, you know, oh, is this neurological functioning this way? Why? What’s going what, what led to this? And how can we reprogram, and I think there are a lot of things that can be reprogrammed. You know, they used to say, not long ago that your brain isn’t going to change, you know, at 30 years old, it’s done, do over finish, you know, that’s it. Now they’re like, well, that’s just totally wrong. Every time you learn something, it’s building new brain, you know, neuron connections, it’s evolving, it’s changing, and it never stops. So everything is much more plastic is much more adjustable. It’s not written in concrete. Now it can take a huge amount of work to change it.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 26:54
  And even could there be gifts in this wiring to you know, could there be actual gifts that that these people have that maybe, you know, if they didn’t have this particular configuration that they wouldn’t be able to express?

  David Cochrane 27:11
  Yes, one of the things that surprised me in the research, is I thought, well, if we find an astrological key to bipolar disorder, I bet it’s going to be some like hugely nasty, awful thing. You know, like Saturn, Uranus, Neptune with the moon and Pluto, it’s going to be like really heavy duty stressed out to the max. And it isn’t. I mean, they are stressful. There. They are extreme pattern, but we see people operate quite normally with the same patterns. So it got me to thinking the people diagnosis bipolar disorder are not that different from anybody else. Like a fine line. I think mental health is, is very, we’re all very vulnerable, one death in our family, one traumatic experience, one being trapped in a situation, you know, you get thrown in jail overnight, or something, you know, we’re all very vulnerable, we think we’re not, you know, we are and, you know, certain stressors and traumatic events, or even nutritional things, and other things can break the system. You know, and I think what I’ve begun to understand through this research is how fragile we all we all are. And we see the vulnerability to bipolar disorder, but it’s not as severe as I thought it was. And there’s always childhood experiences. Every one of the cells clients had concrete, severe trauma, physical, you know, extreme social, not just, Oh, Daddy yelled at me one day and slapped me on the face. Oh, no, no, this is so you know, it’s a combination of factors that cause the malfunction. And, and realizing that I thought it was awful. These people don’t have like a disease. It’s just functioning in a strange way. There must be good things in it. So about a week ago, very recently, I went to Google and I type positive traits of bipolar disorder or something like that. And wow, I’m not the only one to think this. I saw these academic journal articles, you know, peer reviewed journal articles, positive traits, people with bipolar disorder, you know, there’s certain things that they tend to do better. I can’t remember what they are right now. But they do better than the average person. And they also fit with the planetary configuration. I think one of them was concentration, for example, which comes from the seven harmonic and the same thing that causes depression. So yeah, they’re there. They’re working differently. And a lot of that different working is dysfunctional, and it is painful and it doesn’t work well. And some of it does. I have this optimism that we’re going to be working more and more with scientists of all kinds and psychologists and will they be developing treatments. Wilbur Ross, program,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 30:03
  this this, this fits with my bias that our astrological chart is beautiful and unique. And there’s a reason for the exact configuration that we have. And so hearing you say that is really reassuring, because it’s like, you know, looking at a chart and being like, Oh, that’s a bad chart, or that’s, there’s something wrong with you, because you’re like this, or, you know, any of those, I just feel those are so harmful. Those are the kinds of harmful applications of astrology that I feel just just don’t work, you know, for people in the long run, or having it like, hey, look, yes, you have this configuration. And yes, there’s been this series of events in your life that might have triggered. And I love to get evidence like less, less experienced, and more experienced expressions of the same energy. So yes, you know, there could be patterns that you’re stuck in, that aren’t really helping you. However, there is a way to express it differently, that would maybe feel better for you and in your life. So it just feels really empowering that there are answers. Go ahead, David.

  David Cochrane 31:11
  Yeah, you know, the vibrational astrology is really radically different from other forms of astrology in some ways. And one of the ways that it’s different is that in vibrational astrology, everything has a purpose. Everything has a positive purpose. So when people say the 12th house is the house of self undoing? No, there’s nothing in the chart is undoing. When people say, Oh, I’m having a bad day because Mercury’s retrograde and it’s stopping things. Now actually, Mercury Retrograde does not do that. You know, we’re the eighth houses in Vedic Astrology go to stone houses difficult house healing, your only hope is you retreat from the world and you get Moksha liberation. That’s actually not true. We have the data from our database that shows it’s not true, and will consult people everything has a reason it has purpose. There’s some things are more difficult to query way more difficult. Other things are more pleasant, but there are no Mala fix everything. For example, in Saturn, actually, Saturn doesn’t block anything in vibrational astrology. People may say no, you’re wrong, David, I’ve done astrology for 40 years. Saturn blocks everything. No, it doesn’t what Saturn does, we’re pretty confident about this. By applying the model and seeing how it works in different situations. What Saturn does, is it tries to cut away everything superficial, oh, everything’s superficial. So Saturn comes along, transits the husband’s chart, the wife leaves. Why? Because he comes up, you know, back in the 60s or 70s, he comes on, he reads newspaper in now maybe now he’s, you know, on his cell phone, Googling something, whatever it is, he’s not paying attention to her. He’s not listening to her. He’s not engaged with her. He doesn’t need her. Now he’s going to be extremely painful, he’s going to go through hell. But Saturn is saying if you’re not going to go to the bone, if you’re not going to do something that lasts past death, patterns, requirements, sex doesn’t last past death, you know, what I’m going to a party is the last best. And that’s why senators only parties. That’s why Saturn is dry. Because Saturn wants to get to something that’s going to last fast death. Actually, some comedians have strong Saturn, because they’ve decided that they can make somebody laugh, that would be the most wonderful thing. So a lot of it has to do with what it means why you’re doing it. But the thing about Saturn is each criterion is so extreme, it just cuts away everything. And then you say what blocked me he blocked you because you don’t have enough devotion, enough commitment, enough depth of sensitivity to make it hold on to you, you might think you do. But why do you want that new car because your neighbor is gonna see you, because the pretty girl next door is going to see you because it’s going to help compensate because you didn’t feel good. Because you didn’t get on the football team when you were in seventh grade. Those are not good reasons to get a car, you’re not gonna

  Amanda Pua Walsh 34:00
  get it. Wow, this is an amazing reframe and amazing insights. And thank you so much for helping us understand this idea of every aspect in our chart having a purpose. Yeah. So if you’re if you have things in your chart, they’re like, God, this is really hard, doesn’t mean it’s gonna be easy. But having a purpose. What I’ve found is I think when I can connect with a deeper purpose of why I’m going through something, it does make it easier in the sense that at least it has meaning and it’s not just some chaotic, horrible random thing happening that there is there’s a purpose so thank you, David for that and I appreciate that that rabbit hole that you’ve gone down to to see like, could there be some gifts here? Could there be some reasons for this exact configuration? I know

  David Cochrane 34:47
  you know, one great thing about astrology hub and all these alternative activities as well as a lot of mainstream activities is people are finally getting maturing to the point of realizing that you’re going to die some Day in accumulating a bunch of stuff. I mean, just do something you love. If you if you haven’t a chance, then then do it. And you know what occurred what I had a deep meditation once many, many years about 30 years ago, and I was actually feeling kind of guilty about doing astrology because, you know, I was thinking, you know, they’re hungry children there’s there’s genital mutilation, sorry for getting into gross things, but thinking, there’s disgusting things. And here I am analyzing, you know, these these golden means structures and the planets and how they relate to people’s charts. And the phrase that came to me in the meditation was science got us into this mess, and science will get us out of this mess. Oh my gosh, get emotional. Yeah, not that science is the only thing I’ll get inside of this best but Right. You know, I knew. To me it meant. That’s your part.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 35:56
  I love that so much, David, thank you for sharing that story is so beautiful. And it brings brings me back to something that we were talking about earlier, which is the timing of it. And vibrational astrology is emergence because so many more people are aware of the energetic underpinnings of reality at this point, right? I mean, you’ll hear people say, Well, yeah, everything is energy. So then, of course, which I don’t think was maybe part of everyday vernacular. I don’t know how many decades probably in the 60s and 70s. But before that, right, so I it just it’s like this perfect idea. Perfect timing, perfect. Technology coming through enabling it to happen. Do you want to just spend a tiny bit of time talking about vibrational astrology? I know we, we talked about that on episode 64. But for those that are unfamiliar with what vibrational astrology even is, especially since it’s so important to this idea of understanding astrology is linked to bipolar disorder.

  David Cochrane 36:53
  Yeah, so the basic idea of vibrational astrology is well, there’s a few basic ideas. One is that this obsession with the number 1212, signs, aspects or 12. So the circle from our viewpoint, that’s extremely limiting. So I don’t have 12 fingers. I don’t know if you do. If we’re lucky, we have five. Most flowers have five petals. The world around us is not divided into 12 all the time. So why if it’s as above so below, why is everything 12 based? And people give different reasons for it? That’s fine. But my point is why are we so sure about that? So one idea we have in scientists question everything question even what you think, you know, maybe you’re not as smart as you think you are. Maybe Mother Nature’s a little different. And what happened when I started doing this research back in the 70s. I corrected the time people were in accidents. And I interviewed these people and I found that the fifths of the circle the sevens, the nines, elevens Thirteen’s were not minor, and I know astrologers will say, Oh, that’s crazy. You know, they are minor. Well, we found that they’re not minor, sorry, they just, they’re not. They’re just as important as the trine and square, they just work differently. And the people with bipolar disorder have certain configurations in sevens and also in elevens, with Uranus, and sometimes Thirteen’s with Jupiter, and they all mean different things. So that’s one of the basic ideas of vibrational astrology is that there are all of these pieces that you can divide the sky into. And then then people say, well, that’s too complicated. Well, you know, the physicist Richard Feynman said, I don’t get to decide how Mother Nature is, I only get to discover what you we don’t get to decide that that’s too complicated. Maybe learning to play piano, you know, jazz piano or classical piano is too complicated, should be easier, you know, life is what it is. And we’ve been able to go into what appears to be complicated and find simple rule what to look at amidst all those things. So that’s one of the ideas of vibrational astrology. Another idea is that the archetypes like Venus is like this princess and Mars is this young warrior that underneath the archetypes, their energy processes, and we have a lot of evidence to support this, that there’s an energy process that’s underneath that and then the archetypes are born out of the energy. When you go directly to the energy, the function of what the energy is doing, what that vibration is doing. You get right to the heart of what’s going on. This is even true for zodiac signs for everything. So yeah, that’s my introduction of vibration, vibrational astrology,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 39:41
  perfect and K so I’m wondering for people out there who are interested in understanding more I could see how having just like a tiny bit of information could actually be a little bit dangerous. Because Because then we all try to go in and like self diagnose or like, you know, diagnose our child drink or whatever. So would your recommendation be to start with the book that the book is going to give people enough of a starting point, to start to see how this might apply in their own life or with the people in their life? Yeah, there’s

  David Cochrane 40:13
  several routes you can take. If you want to learn more vibrational astrology, there are several people teaching classes. Excuse me, Clarissa dolphin, I teach very small group. I have seven students. And I it takes two years and I’ll be doing another thing with people in Turkey. So there are classes there are books in addition, the the bipolar book is a great one,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 40:36
  can you can you can you hold it up? And so everybody can see the title of it. So the astrology of bipolar disorder, a scientific breakthrough, and that is by David Cochrane. Is it also by Giselle Terry, or just

  David Cochrane 40:50
  No, the book is just by me, I ended up writing it. But her name is on every other page. I mean,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 40:57
  she is so lovely to have you, oh my gosh. I mean, she’s an extraordinary human being. She’s a she is a psychotherapist, and she’s just so dear. She’s one of the leaders, I would say in the field of people who are bridging astrology and psychology and a very practical, tangible way. Because I know we have lots of people in our audience who who are therapists now or who want to become therapists but they also understand that astrology is a huge link to that so Okay, so starting with the book, starting with learning, learning vibrational astrology itself.

  David Cochrane 41:28
  Here’s another book vibrational astrology, the essentials. And here’s the third book, a study guide. This is actually this was done by graduates of my program. Diane Emmons is one of the people group of people did this. And this is actually made to go with a course, we’re going to have a certification program that goes over the essentials. There’s an

  Amanda Pua Walsh 41:50
  astrology study guide for our friends on the podcast, who are not individuals

  David Cochrane 41:54
  with ritual, upload your study guide. And then there are also the videos, I’ve made almost 600 YouTube videos, and they’re like a half hour each. They’re they’re very detailed. There’s, there’s entire course of basic Western astrology, I mean, all kinds of things. Yeah.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 42:14
  I love to give people like an actual starting point. I know for myself, if I hear 600 YouTube videos, I’m like, Oh, my gosh, where do I even start? So starting with the book, if this is something that you want to continue exploring further, David has, like he said, a plethora of resources. And I know David, it’s very important to you to actually teach this and pass it along so that people can be practicing it and then maybe someday they become teachers. And that this, this can stay alive.

  David Cochrane 42:43
  Yeah, that’s why I’m doing small group. And I haven’t do homework and I go over their homework, because I’m my biggest interest is to develop people who are very exceptionally good. So I take a small group and I work with them personally. One more thing I’ll mention for learning is my website astrology dc.com. It’s very, it’s an expensive, it’s about I think, $40 a year it takes the YouTube video and organizes them into essentially which a playlist and so there’s a introduction to vibrational astrology, I think 40 or 60 different videos. So that’s another way to learn. They’re organized. And there’s other things. We have a thing called Kepler club meets once a month, you can get some interaction. So yeah, there’s also a website, Astro vibe.org, which is the Association of vibrational astrologers, which is starting up. And you can always go there and find out what’s going on. Or stay in touch with astrology. And I stay in touch with Amanda and Amanda, watch and know what’s going on for

  Amanda Pua Walsh 43:43
  sure. And David, there’s requests already for to have you back as an inner circle astrologer. So maybe that’s something we could see.

  David Cochrane 43:50
  Yeah, yes.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 43:52
  So David Kay, had one more question for you. And now I’m losing it. Oh, yes. You said that you’re doing some additional research on other other things. So you mentioned heart disease. You mentioned you mentioned eating disorders, what are the additional paths that you’re following? With this research? I can’t think

  David Cochrane 44:15
  of them off the top of my head. We’re also doing things on astrological variables, like what exactly do the fixed stars do? That’s a research project being done by Starling brighter, she’s one of our colleagues and researchers. And we have a we meet regularly once a week to go over the research projects. So one of the things we do is we look at people or events like accidents. We also look at astrological things. We’ve we’ve done the 12 signs, we’re now doing the 12 houses. We research them with this database analysis, compare it to what’s going on. There’s also a lot of theoretical developments. For example, the ascendant disappears at certain places on earth and there is no ascendant well that’s a minor problem. You Have we figured out a solution to that? And, and we’ve been testing it more anecdotally, like we build, we look at things that are, you know, that are confusing cognitive dissonance like there is no ascendent and we found out, we’re quite confident now that we know what’s going on there and what to do about it. So there’s there’s all of that. And one other resource is the vibrational astrology conference in early March. It’s a live conference, we don’t have it, you know, it’s in North Florida, Gainesville, Florida. Next one is March 3 through fifth. And there you meet the vibrational astrologers, and other people who are studying and learn some stuff going on. Well, that will just blow your mind and open up doors like crazy, because we’re all there. And and we’re just people, you know, you can just go up to somebody and say, I like you. I like, can we talk forever? I mean, amazing, you know, because we’re all just people. We just spent a lot of time in this particular thing. That’s all.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 46:02
  David, are you looking for more researchers? And are you looking for more, quote unquote, subjects? Because something that that Leah, thank you says in the chat, I’m recovering from an eating disorder? If you need more volunteers for your research? Let me know. So are you looking for, you know, people to study and also people that study, you know, we were

  David Cochrane 46:24
  looking for people to study, we can use volunteers, but that’s actually can we get nerdy put on my nerd hat is that’s actually not a scientifically sound sampling method. Right? Convenient sampling, you did a master’s degree in psychology. You might remember this stuff. I did. I love statistics,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 46:45
  I think it’s the most fascinating, I love all the math, I had to take statistics was my jam for

  David Cochrane 46:51
  us. Yeah, so it’s called conveniency. Wham. And basically, you know, the ideas of statistics are just common sense. It’s like there’s too much selection bias, right? People that have moved Pluto, we’re gonna say, I added to blah, blah, blah, and they’re gonna submit their data. Anyway, it’s, it’s fun, it’s entertaining, but it’s not something we can present at the conference. It’s more, it’s more like an anecdotal level, which is important. Not the high level research, we have to have a better sampling method. So yeah, we can look at that. But now as far as researchers go, one of our problems with this new research institute, cause it’s at Cosmo biology.org, www dot Kozmo, biology.org. The site has already been developed, it’s going to be done. By the end of the year, you’ll see one of the data scientists whose founding it they’re not all astrologers is we have to do get a board of directors. And we don’t know anybody, hardly anybody who who’s knows enough about specifically vibrational astrology and research method, hmm. and would like to get involved. So okay, so

  Amanda Pua Walsh 47:56
  that’s, that’s, that’s an invitation out there for someone who can do that. And if what I would like to say is, if this is just lighting you up, you know, you’re like, Whoa, this is a whole new world to explore, then definitely check out all these different resources that David has. And David, I’m just so grateful that you’re doing this, I feel like it’s very cutting edge astrology. And the idea that there’s people being trained and how to practice it, and then and then they’re going to be, they’re going to be able to train at some point more and more of us in this field. So it’s just very exciting. And I’m so grateful for the work that you do, and all the contributions that you have made and continue to make to astrology, we’re very, very lucky to have you in the world, following your passion following your curiosity. So thank you for doing that. And, yeah, is there anything else you want to say before we close out?

  David Cochrane 48:44
  I just yeah, what I want to say is, thank you, Amanda. Because us mystical nerds I mean, all I do is meditate and, and figure out all kinds of crazy stuff. And you know, I am not good at marketing or anything. And maybe I could be like a good enough motivation, but that’ll never happen. So you know, you’re to me like the top the creme de la creme like you you’re just so engaging, so exciting. You’re know how to manage stuff, you know, and you know, we all do different things. And you know, I you know, I I sometimes tell people you know, I can do matrix algebra and calculus in my head, but I can’t put my socks on properly. I mean, I just I have no idea like I don’t I also don’t know how to use the microwave. I refuse to learn. Oh my gosh, awesome. So I just I just don’t it’s all bothersome. You know, my wife has, you know, face she takes care of everything. I can’t pay bills. No, it’s actually you know, it’s talking about disorders you know, having this energy is it’s not easy like I have to do it if I don’t do it, I start to spin out of control.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 49:54
  You have to express it all the aspects

  David Cochrane 49:59
  and discuss over every day, then there are I start spinning out of control and also my meditations and stuff. So you know, I know what to do. And the great thing is I make all these discoveries one after another, but it is too delicate path. And I need people around me to take care of things, because it’s it’s hard to explain it just, I remember reading once, I think it was Steve Jobs that he had trouble picking his shirt out from the, you know,

  Amanda Pua Walsh 50:24
  yeah, I just wears a black turtleneck all the time.

  David Cochrane 50:30
  Right, because he didn’t pick on when I read that. I said, Oh, good. I’m not the only one. It’s like this.

  Amanda Pua Walsh 50:37
  This is so true. And I just this is definitely a sidebar. But I think it’s really relevant in the astrological conversation, because it’s one of the things that I feel is a gift of astrology is giving us permission to be who we are, and not try to compensate and be someone else. And when you know what your strengths are. And David, thank you for, you know, being where you’re at in your life. And being a model of that. It’s like when you know what your strengths are, you know what you’re not good at? It’s like, you know, I have to admit of, I had to take calculus for my psychology degree, my undergrad degree, I think they were just trying to weed people out of the major. So they made it really hard. No, I had to take calculus, and I got straight A’s in college, David, you’d be proud of me. I just Okay, so I got straight A’s, except for calculus, I worked my butt off. I had a personal tutor. I was in every study group, I went to every single thing I could and I got a C minus and I literally could not do it. So I just know I’m not good at that. I’m just not good at that. So there’s things that we all know we’re not good at. And then it’s not like an excuse. It’s just saying, I’m not wired for that for whatever reason, but I’m wired for some other things. I’m really glad it’s helpful for people like you that are wired for those kinds of things. So we can complement each other. How beautiful is that? Yep. Right? Yep. Okay. Well, thank you, David, we really appreciate you and your time. And again, all your contributions. And I love all of you. Thank you so much for being here. Thank you for all of your amazing comments. While we’ve been here live, thank you for continuing to share with us. When this recording is over. We do pay attention we do. I can’t respond to everybody. But I read them. And I’m just it’s just makes me so happy to know you’re all out there. And that you geek out on this stuff stuff as much as we do. So thank you for being a part of our community. Thank you as always for making astrology a part of your life. And if you are going to ESR at the end of August, I just found out that David’s going to be there. That is a conference that’s happening and astrological conference happening at the end of August. We’d love to meet you all there. And yeah, I can’t wait to hear your talk, David. And see you again very soon. All right, everybody, take care and catch you on the next episode. Bye everybody.