Astrology and the Future of Humanity

In this episode, Astrologer Richard Tarnas and Amanda discuss Astrology’s role in creating a better future and their upcoming Astrology Course

You’ll learn …

• The power of an Astrological worldview
• Ways in which astrology can be misused
• The difference between how Astrology was experienced in the past, and how it now influences the present

Chapters 📺

0:00 Intro

3:54 What is Astrology and why it’s important

8:58 What makes the Astrology Community special

18:20 How can Astrology be misused?

24:47 The problem with Predictive Astrology

30:52 Life and Death (Trigger Warning)

36:53 Astrology and Religion

50:08 Your Astrological Initiation

1:00:13 Outro

Did you hear?

The legendary Richard Tarnas and his daughter Becca are teaching an exclusive astrology workshop… Your Astrological Initiation starts September 21st 🔥

Learn more & enroll today at astrologyhub.com/initiation

Transcript

This transcript is automatically generated. Some miswording might be present.

Welcome to the Astrology Hub podcast. I’m Amanda Pua Walsh, founder of Astrology Hub, and your host for our flagship show, we explore the many ways astrology can support you and your relationships, career health and personal growth. Thanks for tuning in Well, hello everybody. And welcome to our flagship show. I’m Amanda Poole Walsh is the founder of Astrology Hub, and I am thrilled to be here today with astrological legend,

cultural historian and author of cosmos and psyche, Richard Tarnas. And today we’re going to be talking about something really important, which is Astrology his role in creating a better future. And when we asked Rick what he would like to cover today, this was one of the options that he gave us and the whole team we all we all said, yes, this would be really,

really interesting to cover, especially with Rick. So I’m really, really grateful that he’s here to talk about this and he doesn’t really need an intro for most of you, but for those of you who are newer to astrology and, or just have not yet heard of Richard Tarnas, I’m going to just do a brief introduction here. He is a celebrated author,

astrologer cultural historian and professor of philosophy and psychology. His third book, cosmos and psyche imitations of a new worldview is widely considered essential reading for any Astrology students. He has an AB from Harvard university, a PhD from Saybrook Institute, and he was the director of programs at Epsilon Institute in big Sur, California. He’s the founding director of the philosophy cosmology and consciousness graduate program at California Institute for integral studies in San Francisco.

And we did an episode with Rick a few months back, and if you’re interested in learning more, it was an amazing episode. It was for the, the launch essentially of a docu series that was featuring Richard’s work from the book cosmos and psyche. And the episode number is 4 37. And you can also go to Astrology Hub dot com slash Parness episode.

If you want to check that out. So episode 4 37, it’s called changing of the gods and, or you can go to Astrology Hub dot com slash tarnish episode. We went into some amazing topics and it was a lot of fun. So I’m really grateful to have you back again, Rick, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for the invitation,

Amanda. It’s always great to see you and, and also be in dialogue about these important, important issues, you know, and I appreciate also what you’re carrying with Astrology Hub and your community there. So it’s, it’s great to, for my daughter and I to be for the two of us to be presenting through your, your, to your community and through your,

your, your network, your organization. Yes, we’re so grateful. And, and just so you all know, we’re probably going to be referring a few times to a workshop that we are hosting at Astrology Hub with Rick and Becca. Tarnas coming up in just a few weeks and registration is open. It’s called your astrological initiation, and you can find it at Astrology Hub dot com slash initiation,

but we’re going to be talking about it more throughout this episode. And so you’ll get to learn more and if you are interested in joining us, we would love to have you for that. Okay. So let’s start with the big picture. Why, like, how do you feel Astrology has a role to play in creating a better future? W why do you feel this is an important topic to cover and how do you feel that’s true?

Well, I think, I think of astrology for first of all, just on the personal level, when it comes into, you know, our, our, our own lives for the first time, the role it can play in kind of opening us up. I think the subtitle of my book, cosmos and psyche was intimations of a new worldview. It intimates a new way of relating to,

to the cosmos and also to our own lives. And, and it does so in a number of ways, I th I think of, of astrology as a kind of gift from the cosmos, you know, it, it, it didn’t have to be there. We could be just kind of random being on this swirling planet in, in the middle of a universe that doesn’t have any intrinsic meaning or purpose.

And we’re just trying to find our way as a kind of precarious species in a, in a randomly evolving cosmos and astrology suddenly opens us up to the fact that we, we live in a different kind of a universe, one, that it has meanings and purposes that we are embodying in our lives and that the, the, our birth charts and our transits and so forth,

give us important signs of, of, of who we are and how we can live more skillfully. And that actually points to, you know, perhaps one of the most important advantages of having an astrology in our, in our personal lives. And that is, it gives us a capacity to live more consciously to live with greater skill, because we’re, we’re,

we have a sense for what are the powerful factors, the, the, the planetary archetypes, the, the, the energies that are at work in our lives, from our birth, that we are actualizing in the course of our lives. And if we get an, if we get a sense for who we are and what our potential is in that way,

and also because of how transits and progressions give us a sense for what energies are being activated at a particular time, and for how long in what combinations, how does this relate to my own personal kind of predispositions and, and the things I’m working through this lifetime and so forth. It, it just allows us to be more like conscious beings participating in the cosmic unfolding rather than kind of unconscious puppets of those energies.

It, if I can just say one, one more thing, the, in this sense, the depth psychology, impulse, our project, and our modern culture that came out of Freud and psychoanalysis and the new young and all the major youngian archetypical, transpersonal, psychologists, and so forth, they’ve they have all emphasized the importance of becoming more conscious of what is largely unconscious in us.

What co what, what are important factors that are shaping how we see the world, how we respond to it, et cetera. And Astrology gives us this opportunity to, I mean, I’ve, I’ve talked to many people who felt that one really good, insightful astrology reading from a sensitive discerning astrologer can be equal to six months of psychotherapy in terms of re revealing important realities about who we are.

And also something that doesn’t happen without Astrology, which is to get a sense for the timing of things and, and the duration and, and so forth. So it, it kind of gives very specific signals kind of like being Hansel and Gretel in the forest and having those white pebbles, you know, able to help lead us home in the Moonlight. Oh,

gosh. Yes. I have a question for you. So what hearing you say is that because Astrology gives us insights into the different energies that we’re embodying, but also that the different energies we may encounter in other people’s, there’s this diff different archetypes. It allows us to be more conscious as we navigate life, instead of it being this sort of random,

you know, just meaningless universe, we, we it’s actually infuses it with meaning. And there was something that you said in the beginning about Astrology ability to kind of open us up, I think, is, is something that you were saying in the beginning and, and make us capable to receive these gifts in a way that not a lot of things do.

And I was wondering, cause I’ve been thinking about this recently, especially on the heels of the ESR conference that I just came from, where there were hundreds of astrologers all at one event and the amount of passion and enthusiasm and joy that people exude for Astrology. I haven’t experienced it in any other field. I haven’t ever come across that level of sustained over time enthusiasm.

And I’m wondering if, if you can think of any comparable arenas where, where that is true or is Astrology pretty unique in that? Well, I suppose compared to many professional academic conferences, so, and, and just professional business type conferences, generally, there’s no comparison, you know, in terms of the, the atmosphere and the, and the,

and the feeling that people can have at such a, an event. I remember hearing a kind of skeptical, skeptical academic in England, who was doing some studying of the astrological community there. And he went to some of the conferences and he, he confided to a friend. He said, w who shared it with me? Who said, you know,

if we are to judge the value of a, a worldview or a paradigm by, by its, by its fruits, that is by how people are in real life as a result of adopting and, and developing that particular worldview or paradigm or perspective. I have to say Astrology is pretty admirable because the conferences that I’ve been at are, are filled with kind people who seem to be,

have a, a certain benevolence in their re relating to each other and in their feeling about life. And I, I, I think that has something to do with the benevolence. The cosmos has shown us, knew the gift of astrology and that when we, when we, when we get it, I mean, it’s a kind of epiphany, it’s a kind of revelation as it were.

And because it does sort of break us out of the disenchanted worldview that is very characteristic of, of the modern era and opens us up to the recognition that we live in an insult cosmos that our own soul is continuous with the soul of the universe that we’re, we’re embedded in it. And that in some sense, we’re not isolated specks of meaning seeking dust in the cosmos we’re,

we’re active and kind of graced participants in an evolutionary process. That is, I think in some sense, depending on us to live up to our potential and is also giving us the giving us help. And I think that accounts for at least some of the there’s a healing that happens to the soul when one has that kind of breakthrough out of being in an alienated state of,

you know, being kind of a strange from the universe feeling one’s in a cog, in a wheel of a, of an impersonal society and so forth. There’s a lot of things about the modern era that can create a kind of discouraging existential situation. And in our own time, that’s been magnified a hundred fold, whether it’s through the pandemic or climate change or social political issues.

And so it’s a very, an economic, so there’s a lot of, I mean, to have this kind of blessing of, well, things may be challenging, but I know that I am part of something bigger. There’s a larger mystery I’m participating in. And if I can put it very squarely or directly in a certain mysterious way, this vast universe seems to have,

seems to care about site. You and I did discuss this in the interviewer or podcasts that we did a few months ago, just that quality of, you know, Astrology can kind of open up one’s heart. And it’s partly a recognition to the wreck, to the idea that the universe has a heart that it, that it cares about this earth enough to have the planets that we see in,

in the orbits, moving around the sun with, along with the earth. And, and we’re able to recognize the different alignments of the planets and to discover that these movements of the planets have meaning are carrying important and important information about who we are and that it, and that there’s even a caring attention to each moment and to each individual, because each of our birth charts is unique,

the soul of meaning as well. So in all those respects, there is a major, a major, I think, heart, heart chakra, opening, a gift that comes from an astrology that is at least recognized at that level. I have to say, not every person who stumbles upon astrology necessarily comes into it and takes in, I think this kind of spiritual and cosmological larger context of,

of what they are doing instead. I think it’s more like there’s a, I mean, we could also talk about the fact Astrology, like everything else in human life has a potential shadow and Astrology can be used as just another method of, of, of kind of strategic payoff calculation. Like how can I use this information to, to just push a particular agenda that could be quite,

could be quite selfish, that could be quite objectifying of other people and so forth. And, and in that case, what I would regard as being a kind of sacred gift that’s been given to us, you know, I don’t want to get too religious about it, but there is a spiritual dimension to, to the, the mystery of astrology. And if that gift is kind of appropriated for just completely,

you know, narcissistic strategies, then that can be, I think that’s, that’s kinda missing the boat of the bigger gifts that were, that we get from Astrology. I agree with you. And I would love to hear more about that. What specific misuses do you see, because we’re talking about how Astrology can help us create a better world. And like you just said,

it’s not like everybody who’s using Astrology or even aware of Astrology is using it in that way. So, so where do you see the pitfalls and, and how, how can it be used in the opposite way and actually used for harm? Like what, what, what specific do you see in that way? Okay. So one, one way it can be used in an almost self-defeating way is if,

if one looks at it as being a kind of deterministic or fatalistic system that has in which you ha you are basically, you look at your birth chart and you find out, oh, this is my fate. This is what I’ve been burdened with this lifetime. And I have these hard aspects and I’m born under a sign. I wish I wasn’t born or whatever,

you know, just all the different, and that partly comes from, I think, a miss apprehension of the, of the true nature of astrology, which is the, these planetary archetypes, these, these powerful energies forces, beings, patterns that, that unfold in our lives that are represented by the sun and the moon and Venus and Mars and so forth.

They don’t have just a single meaning that is going to tell us exactly what, how they’re going to unfold in our lives. These are more what I call they’re, they’re, they’re multi Vaillant by which I mean, they have a kind of rainbow spectrum of potential meanings that are all faithful to the nature of Venus or of Saturn, or, you know,

the sun, but, you know, a person who has a, has a, a very strong Mars for example, could, could act that out or channel that energy in purely aggressive kind of ego centric, ways that quick to irritation, quick to pick fights, sees the world as a place that you’re constantly in competition with others. And it’s either,

if I don’t get ahead at their expense, they’re going to get ahead at my expense, that kind of thinking, or the Mars could be, and this is equally faithful to the nature of Mars. It could express itself in a person’s life who has courage, who has ardor, who has a capacity, you know, to take chances, push forward,

mobilize their energies on behalf of, of a task, be brave, et cetera. I mean, we’ve, we need Mars to get out of bed in the morning, but it can so easily turn into, you know, a kind of either, you know, like macho energy or hyper competitive newness that can happen between human beings, et cetera, or it could express itself in something much,

much more noble. So that’s just Mars. That’s the, that’s the multi valence, the, the, the kind of rainbow spectrum of possible ways in which a particular planet can express its meaning in a person’s life. And that’s where our consciousness comes in. That’s where our, our level of awareness that we bring to these energies and also the kind of spirit that we bring to,

to are we going to bring to it a, a kind of a, again, this idea of a kind of payoff calculator that is just kind of looking to for advantages in a, in a kind of selfish way, or is rather at how can I embody these energies in a way that is more life enhancing, not only for myself, but for those I love for the world I’m in et cetera.

So that’s, that’s one way in which Astrology can be misused. And then the way I was kind of touching on it at the very beginning in my response to you with this question had to do with not so much that you’re being selfish about it, but that you misunderstand the Astrology itself. As it’s not concretely predictive, it’s, archetypically predictive. It gives us an in and by giving us that larger range of ways of being able to express a particular archetype,

whether it’s a light, a noble way or a not a very admirable way, or it could be a, an extraordinary form, or it could be quite a trivial form that there’s there’s light and shadow with every single part of every, every planetary scent symbol, every sign, et cetera, has its noble potential, its life enhancing creative potential, and also has a potential for,

for more destructive uses, more narcissistic uses, et cetera. Do you think there’s a point at which, I mean, do you also think there’s a trap in terms of trying to use it too much for prediction? Do you, do you think that there’s, there’s a line between using Astrology sort of to understand ourselves and to understand the archetypes versus to quote unquote,

tell the future for again, I think there is a danger there and, and the danger is connected to missing out on the, on the treasure of Astrology, which is to permit us a deeper understanding of what has already happened and of who we are as well as our potential and the impulse to try to predict the future is certainly in part, if not in largely an effort to,

to control and our capacity to have agency, as we say, in psychology and philosophy to ha to have a sense of being able to act in such a way that we are helping to shape our environment, direct our lives with, with our own deliberations and so forth. That that’s important. But if we are only looking at kind of control attempting to control life rather than participate in it,

well, two things. One is we’re missing out on a lot. And number two, we are probably going to get defeated because life is much bigger than any of our plans, any of our capacities to control it. It’s it’s, yeah, it’s, it’s a much bigger mystery. One way of thinking about it is in a love relationship or, or even,

or even, you know, most vividly in, in the act of making love any effort to control what’s happening is completely counterproductive to the, the flowering of love and the flourishing of, of, of a love relationship. Well, that’s kind of like life, we, we can either participate in a kind of a loving partnership or we can try to control it with a sense of which is really coming from a place of fear.

And I guess this is one other gift I think that Astrology can give us is to enter into life with, with less fear. Now a fearful individual can take Astrology and then actually have that magnify their anxieties like, oh, I can’t, I can’t go to the store now because the moon is void of course, or something like that, you know,

and pretty soon one finds oneself imprisoned by these, this kind of attempt to micromanage one’s life, according to what every little detail is happening in the stars. And that’s, I think also a potential danger apparel that we, we, we should be, be conscious of. But the beauty of astrology is that I think if you entered deeply enough into it,

you get a, an intimation of a, of a, of a universe that has deeper meanings and purposes that are flowing through it. And that our entire planet and, and the human community is, is embedded in. And we, our personal soul life is embedded in a kind of cosmic soul. What we call the anima, Mundi the soul of the world on human Monday.

And that recognition can, I think, make us less, less fearful because I think underlying much of the state of modern anxiety is a sense of the anxiety that comes from an alienation that we live in a purposeless disenchanted universe. This is, this is the great promise of, of the astrological worldview that as it, as it begins to enter in, like,

I think young, younger generations than mine, like the millennials and so forth, they’re carrying up a possibility of a less armored relationship to the universe. And as that unfolds over time, I think there’s a possibility of kind of breaking out of that existentialist, isolated sense of isolation, of, of being a stranger in a strange land. And instead finding that we’re at home in,

in something that is unfolding through us, as well as all around us, You know, I’ve often thought Rick about teenage suicide and how it seems to me that if children at that age and adults, you know, everybody, if they understood that their life has purpose and meaning, if it could actually not just understand that, but feel that deeply and have an experience of that,

it seems like it would be so much less likely that someone would opt to take their life. And it’s one of the reasons why I feel so passionate about helping to bring this information to younger children and teenagers, but in a way that does empower and does uplift and inspire, because one of the things I was going to also mention in terms of the,

how Astrology can sort of do the opposite of making a better world. And I wanted to get your thoughts on this is I’ve seen people use it to actually create more separation and more boxes, you know, like, oh, I don’t engage with people like that because I’ve had bad experience with Aries, or I will never have a re you know, the reason why he’s such a jerk is because he’s a blank or,

you know, and, and you hear people use it this way. It’s like, it’s a weaponization of Astrology. That seems to be very harmful as well. Yeah, it’s a weaponization and it’s also a deep misunderstanding too. It’s a real distortion of, of the astrological reality of one 12th of the world is Aries or Scorpio or whatever. And who is to know which,

which precious, precious being is going to come into one’s life, who might not fit your pre your, your, your prejudice about a particular sign or something like that. Yeah, yeah, it can, it can be misused. I mean, you’re, I’m quite with you on this idea of what it could mean to young teenagers, contemplating suicide. I’ve seen the,

I’ve seen the effect of having a, a compassionate, insightful astrology reading for such a person. And it, it changes, changes the playing field. I mean, they’re, they have a different sense of things and it can make a huge difference. I reading once about a man who had been feeling very suicidal, this was a number of years ago.

He had been feeling very depressed to the point of finally making a decision to commit suicide. And while he, that evening, he had a plan to do it that night, but he was just sitting down and television was on and on came a Joseph Campbell. You know, I think it was the power of myth that with the, the Joseph Campbell series about mythology and so forth,

that he did with bill Moyers, that many millions of people saw in the, in the 1990s, in particular later eighties and nineties. And he, it, it just wakened. He realized that a lot of what he was going through was a kind of classic hero’s journey, kind of dark night of the soul. And it was, it placed it in a different context and Astrology can do that.

It Astrology is a caring of, of a deeper mythos, a deep, a deeper sense of the mythic meanings that we are living out in our lives and to feel oriented by it and contained by it in a certain way, as a young person who otherwise has no sense that they even, why are they even born? You know, is there an,

of course they have a filter that allows that, that obscure us from their vision, anything positive either about themselves or about the, the life that they see in front of them. And so I think, well, Astrology just by itself, it is a, is in some sense, a neutral phenomenon that can be distorted and, and presented to somebody in a way that has deleterious effects,

or if it’s presented in a way that I think is more authentic to the depth and heart of astrology and has done in a compassionate and insightful way, then you have the real opportunity for a person to basically, I mean, the very moment that they get it is, is a kind of rebirth. It’s a sense of, oh my God, I’m in a different universe than I thought I was.

And what I thought was an endless darkness going forward is, is in fact, something that makes a lot of sense in terms of, you know, my current transits, they’re not going to be this way forever. And it reflects certain things that I’m working through and my natal chart, and that have extremely promising possibilities that I can still develop and unfold and et cetera,

in all those ways, then the, then astrology is a, is a liberating gift. Hmm. And it seems like we’re almost in a, a somewhat precarious situation right now, because as old of meaning and purpose are falling away and I’m referring specifically to like religious institutions and, and that sort of religious container, that for a lot of people still does.

And I’m not saying that this doesn’t resonate with a lot of people still, but I know for myself growing up this idea, you know, 13 years of Catholic school and this idea that I was basically living so that I could get to heaven after death, like it never worked for me and never gave me enough purpose or a sense of meaning of the world to think that anything was really worth it,

you know, it’s like, well, so I’m just so that I can like get somewhere else later. Like that just doesn’t really, it doesn’t really motivate me on any level. And so I can see that as, as that system of, or, or belief system, or I keep thinking of this term container, like for purpose, the meaning of life as it’s crumbling.

And there isn’t really one necessarily formed for a lot of people yet, it seems that we’re in this, this middle place where it it’s either you’re going to latch on to some sort of materialistic and very sort of, you know, lack, lackluster, and also lack of meaning, understanding of existence, or you’re going to find something else that does fill that,

that sense of meaning and purpose. And it seems to, again, the kids, it seems like they would be right in the middle of that kind of tug of war between the old and what’s emerging. Yeah, that’s right. We’re, we’re in a kind of threshold liminal kind of place in between worldviews and well, I think Catholicism and, and many different forms of Christianity,

Judaism, Buddhism, Hinduism, shamanism, and so forth. All these religious and spiritual traditions have a noble side to them, but also have, have, for example, what you’re talking about, where the entire focus is on a kind of after, after life and after worldly and a kind of negation of this life, except as it will make or break your,

your, your time. And Aternity, that can be a confining perspective. I mean, we have many gifts that have come out of Christianity, Judaism, and so forth, and they can, and they are living vessels that can be renewed for the individuals who live within those traditions. But you’re quite right. We live in an era which overall in our secular age,

the old religious containers have, I mean, it’s just nothing like the way it would have been in 1500 or something like that, where everybody was completely, it was just an unquestioned belief in, in God or in, in the, the, the one religion that was dominant in your culture, your civilization, and so forth. And now we live in a time where there not only are many religious options,

but there are also the options of no religion, no spirituality as well is. And the, one of the dangers that you, that fit into what you were talking about for a person in that in-between place, is that in the search for meaning, which they’re not getting out of a meaningless universe, they can have like a very, it could be turned into a kind of materialistic thing.

W what’s gonna give me the greatest meaning, making a lot of money that shiny, you know, get getting as many toys before I die, you know, the, the, the shiny technologies and so forth. And they, they take on a kind of, they take on the role of, of a, of a, of the sacred, and it’s a,

it’s a cheap version of it. And so it isn’t really ultimately very nourishing people on their death bed. Very seldom say, God, if I had only made another million dollars, I would have felt so much better now, you know, there’s other values that suddenly become relevant. So, yeah, I think, I think your I’ll just mention that one of the things about astrology is that all cultures prior to the modern have some sense that we live in an unsold cosmos and that there is an astral dimension to it.

And it, and in certain cultures, certain civilizations that got highly developed the, the astrological point of view, and certainly the, I mean, European civilization that has shaped so many of us and really shapes the modern world still to, to an enormous extent European civilization, there was, there was Astrology being taught in the universities right up, you know,

through the 17th century. And prior to that, the, the civilizations that it emerged out of, whether we’re talking about ancient Egypt, ancient Mesopotamia, and silver, these were all astrological civilizations and Astrology was astrology, astrology, astronomy. They were one, one practice, one discipline, one, the, the great archaic civilizations were studying the stars and the planets movements,

not just for purely to understand the materialistic side of what are these, what, what makes sense of these motions and so forth. They were interested in what’s up with the gods right now, the, the heavens were seen as, as, as divine, they, they had deep significance. And so the greatest advances that were made in astronomy were made during astrological,

Aras, including in, in ancient Greece, the Hellenistic era and the medieval era going right into the Renaissance. I mean, the Renaissance was highly astrological, highly magical living very much in an unsold universe. And yet was, was also the kind of vessel of, of the modern. So we have a straw. I like to think of astrology as being this kind of cosmic,

spiritual background, that in some sense, all the religious streams and traditions have that way in the background. Cause we all have it in our human evolutionary and historical background. And so I think it’s quite possible that we’re going to see in the future Astrology playing a role as to kind of embracing spiritual container for playing a role that is not dissimilar to what re various religions have played,

but it can do so in intimate interaction with the different religious and spiritual traditions, as many people are doing already, Christian astrologers, Buddhist astrologers, Hindu, Chris Hindu astrology is like, you know, completely central to the, to the religion and, and the, and the people. So that’s, those are a few thoughts about how, how we can regard the,

yeah, I think Astrology really does have that potential to serve us all at a time when the old vessels are cracking as a, as an, as a container, a vessel, a something that we all can directly experience, not just take on faith. This is why I think it’s important to share with people more of the details of how to understand their charts so that they have a direct experience.

They’re not like waiting on the priest to show them what’s how do I relate to the divine will, but they have a direct relationship to, to, to the, to the mystery. And they become their own priestess and priest rather than just dependent on someone who’s telling them. What’s what, and so that’s why I think it’s quite valuable to do something like,

you know, w the kinds of things that Astrology Hub organizes and sponsors, which is this opportunity for people from all walks of life, to be able to have a more direct encounter with, with Astrology, understand it, better, be able to look at their own chart and, and make sense of it and get nourishment from that. Hmm. Let’s go there next.

But I just wanted to reflect back to you something that recently I was on a plane and I sat next to a Christian pastor, and I asked him what he does. And he told me, he’s a pastor. I was like, oh, wow, cool. And then he asked what I didn’t. I said, I run a company called Astrology Hub.

And it was fascinating, the conversation that ensued, because we were able to talk about the Bible and how many references to the stars. There are how many references to astrology. And he was so open to the perspective. And I could so clearly see how these two things are not in conflict at all, that they truly can come together and really add a lot of depth to both sides of the conversation.

And he reminded me that in the middle ages, or even not until like that far back in history, most people couldn’t read at all. And so they had to have the priest tell them what the Bible said, and, and th they had to have a translator because they weren’t allowed to learn how to read. So it’s, it’s just fascinating to see that,

you know, there, there were these structures put in place to kind of keep people from the wisdom and the true direct experience of the divine and how Astrology really does open up this opportunity for us to have these direct experiences. And it’s really important that each one of us learn how to read it, at least at some level, so that we’re not always dependent on someone else filtering what it means to us.

Yeah. And that, and, and I would love to have been a fly on the wall in that conversation. I’m sure it would. It was, it was quite, quite fun, special. I think it also what you’re saying, I think points to the value of having astrologers, who, when they are talking to their clients, they, they don’t just give them conclusions.

They, they, they help the person see where they’re getting this, getting these insights where they’re making these connections and each time that that happens. There’s, there’s a little bit more of breaking out of the, of the model of you have to have the priest or priestess tell you how to relate to the divine. You got, you’re helping to build a,

an open path for the direct experience than the direct nourishment that can come from, from being able to track your own transits or, or recognize what your, your natal aspects are and so forth. I love that you called out that nuance of, of the role of the astrologer in a consultation. And I know we’re going to be talking about a lot of that in your astrological initiation,

which is the workshop that you and your daughter Becca are doing for us here at Astrology Hub, just in a few weeks. And can you tell us a little bit more about what inspired you to want to, to really talk about some of these less disgust topics and Astrology, not technique, not this is how to read a chart, but here’s how to hold space.

Here’s important considerations as you’re engaging with people, whether or not you’re an astrologer, or just someone who people turn to for astrological information, which I know pretty much everybody in our community would be playing that role on some level, right. You’re sort of seen as the one that knows what’s going on with the stars. People come to you and say, Hey,

what’s going on? And you’re put in that role of advisor or interpreter, you know, whatever you want to call it. So just tell us a little bit about what inspired your desire to want to teach this specific workshop for our community. Well, I think a lot of it has to do with how much astrology is now coming into wider and wider numbers of people’s lives,

larger and larger numbers of people, wider population. And I just saw this as, as did Becca a, a great opportunity to help the, those who are on the astrological. It could be even just an, an early interest in astrology, or it could be they’re already a practicing professional, but to try to provide a, a way of understanding what the astrological mystery is about,

what the, what, what it, what it means in our lives, that it even exists. And, and also, I mean, while we will be discussing, you know, the basic principles of astrology and, you know, not going into the, all the techniques of how to read, you know, midpoints and rulerships in the Hellenistic system or something like that,

we’re not going to go into that kind of detail, but we are going to go into, we do want to get across an understanding of the, the, the underlying astrological principles in such a way that it’s an orientation. It, it, it, it gives us a sense. It gives, we’re hoping to give those who are in the, in the workshop,

a sense that, of, of grounding of the foundations of a, of, of a larger framework of understanding within which their adventure in astrology can unfold with, with greater fruitfulness. So that’s, that’s what we have in mind. And, and part of the reason for doing it also is the fact picking up on things we’ve talked about earlier is that Astrology can be abused.

It can be distortedly understood in such a way that it, an astrology reading poorly delivered can be wounding. A person can come away from a, a reading, feeling, more discouraged about their life, not more encouraged, and that’s, that’s flat out wrong. That’s not what Astrology should be doing and do. And so we, we want to kind of give people a sense for the re the privilege that we have with the Astros,

the, the, this powerful, it’s a, it’s a powerful tool as, and like a, it’s like an archetypal telescope to the heavens that allows us to see certain things that others aren’t seeing. And if we look through that telescope and then come back and tell others, or, or tell ourselves things that produce a discouraging outcome, then what kind of a gift is that?

What kind of reading is that? And, but that’s the thing about astrology. It’s a powerful tool and like all tools, all technologies, all spiritual paths can produce destructive consequences or wounding ones in the wrong hands or handled in the wrong way. And so we, we want to give a sense for the, the, the great privilege and therefore also responsibility that comes with astrology too,

to see its nobility and just, and to recognize how to present the information that we get from our astrological study, whether we’re presenting a, to others, or whether we’re just using it in our own lives to do that in a way that is true to its highest potential, rather than a reflection of sort of pathological narcissism or fears, or, or a kind of unconscious use of astrology that tells us where the,

the is telling the person, oh, you, this new relationship that you’re in. I don’t see any future in it because of this and that. That’s an a, that’s a, that’s a misunderstanding of astrology. Every thriving, loving couple has hard aspects between their charts. And it’s, it’s, it’s completely a distortion to think that a heart aspect,

either in one’s natal chart or in a relationship synastry as, as they call it between two charts is just a, a foregone conclusion of, of negativity. That’s just the wrong, wrong way of interpreting the astrological information. And so we want to try to, you know, kind of just as a physician is taught from the beginning in medical school, first do no harm.

And that’s an important thing to take in as well as now, how can we use this? That could be the most life enhancing In my experience. I’ve also found just in speaking to people in our community, or, you know, people that I’ve met, you don’t always know why, what you said might have created a harmful experience for other person.

I think sometimes most of the time astrologers or people, ambassadors of astrology, whatever you want to call people that aren’t officially astrologers, but who get to turn to for astrological insights, they have the best intentions. You know, you may come in with the best intentions and actually even be enthusiastic about sharing certain things with people and unaware of the way that,

that, that could be received by the people. So I’m so grateful that you and Becca are going to come with your combined, how many decades of experience between the two of you? Yeah, yeah. Over half a century. I mean, 60 years. Yeah, exactly. So that, that we, I feel we’re going to be able to avoid some of the pitfalls,

you know, by, by having being able to learn from your experience, both in your own personal practices, but also what you get to witness in the field to really not have to learn from hard experience all the time of how, you know, how we could be inadvertently creating harmful situations. So we are so grateful that you two are coming to do this workshop with us.

It’s going to be a four-hour workshop with a two hour live Q and a with Rick and Becca they’re co-teaching it, which is also such a gift just to see a father and daughter duo like a very dynamic duo each so powerful and insightful and sensitive, and their own ways to have YouTube come together to teach. This is also such a gift. So we’re very honored that we get to host this workshop here at Astrology Hub,

and we’re really excited to invite all of you to join us. So it’s Astrology Hub dot com slash initiation. Of course, if you can’t make the live teaching or live Q and a, everything is recorded, it will live in your online library for life. So if you can’t join us live, you’ll still have access to it later. If you’re in a very busy period of,

of life, you can opt in now and then watch it later. However you want to engage with the content. It’s very flexible in that way, but we would love to have you, this feels like an incredible opportunity for all of us to, to really learn from some of the most incredible minds and hearts and Astrology that are alive today. So,

Rick, is there anything else that you want to share about the class or about the, about the topic that we’ve covered covered today? Oh, I think we we’ve, we’ve given a decent sense of it. You know, one thing is that just to know that the, the four hour workshop will be on a separate day from the, from the two hour Q and a,

so it’s like a six hour marathon. And, and even the four hours, of course you can watch part of it recorded and part of it live, et cetera. So there’ll be little breaks and so forth. So it will be I think, a manageable time, but we’re, we’re really looking forward to this opportunity to, to have this very special community of that we would be speaking to.

And also I’m personally excited and even honored to be teaching this with, with Becca. She’s just in, in the last decade, just flowered so much as a, on her, on her own terms as a, as an astrologer and as a, as a professor herself that, you know, in, in certain circles, I am, I’m, I’m known as Becca,

Becca, Tarnas his dad, which is a great joy for a father to your, Oh gosh, you two are just amazing. Becca has been an inner circle, a astrologer teacher several times for us. And she’s just amazing. Like every time I listened to her, I’m just blown away at her intelligence and the beauty of her heart and the, the wisdom it’s like,

and I was, I was saying to Rick, before we went live, it’s fascinating to me to even be able to witness this father daughter duo, because it’s so different than the way I grew up. I was telling Rick that I definitely am very different from my family in my interest of astrology and like the esoteric and those kinds of things. And it’s amazing to me to consider what it would have been like to grow up in a household where conversations about astrology and psychology and the cosmos and all these things would just be like dinnertime conversation.

It’s, it’s just, it’s incredible to consider. And so I am just it on many levels for me, it’s amazing to have you to transmitting this information to all of us, and I’m really, really grateful for the opportunity. Thanks. Thanks, Amanda. We’re, we’re appreciative of your, of your invitation and yeah, I feel really good about,

about being part of your community in this way. Yes. Awesome. Okay. So again, that’s Astrology Hub dot com slash initiation. If you are an inner circle member, you do receive your inner circle discount on this. So make sure you go into your membership portal and you find your discount code and make sure you put that in when you join the class.

And we can’t wait to spend this extra special time with all of you and with you, Rick, thank you again for coming here today, helping us see all the different ways that astrology is just so magical and alive and here to really enliven our lives. So it’s just, I always love listening to you. It’s like listening to poetry and it’s so clear that this is such an embodied experience for you.

It’s not this isn’t these aren’t just ideas that you hold up here in your head. This is lived experience and just being around is inspiring. So thank you. Okay. Thank you very much. I, I I’m grateful for, for that. Amanda is also appreciative of the kind of spirit that you bring to your, to your whole organization and what you’re doing here.

So that’s why we’re here. Oh, thank you. Awesome. Okay, everybody. So check that out again. Astrology Hub dot com slash initiation enrollment is now open. We would love to have you join us and Rick, thanks again. Thanks to all of you for tuning into this episode. And thank you as always for making Astrology a part of your life.

We’ll catch you on the next episode. Take care, everybody. This podcast is presented by Astrology Hub. You can learn more and find all of our shows at Astrology Hub dot com slash podcast. If you enjoyed this episode, please rate review and hit subscribe on your favorite podcast platform. So you can stay up to date on the latest episodes and help more people find the wisdom of astrology.

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