How to use astrological magic and alchemy to change your life with Gary Caton
Listen here:
In this episode of the Astrology Hub podcast 🚀
In this episode of the Astrology Hub Podcast, host Amanda Pua Walsh is joined by astrologer Gary Caton to explore astrological magic in-depth. Gary shares his personal journey with magic, astrology, and alchemy, emphasizing how these practices re-enchant our lives and reconnect us with universal forces. They also delve into the significance of fixed stars, the tarot’s Minor Arcana, and astrological deacons, offering practical insights for eager listeners.
Key takeaways:
🔮The role of magic, astrology, and alchemy in re-enchanting everyday life and reconnecting with universal energy.
🌌How fixed stars differ from planets and their role in transcending fate in astrological magic.
✨The significance of deacons in astrology and their connections with the Minor Arcana in tarot.
💫Gary's personal experiences with astrological talismans and how these practices have manifested in his life.
📜Practical ways to incorporate stargazing and planetary magic into daily rituals for spiritual and emotional nourishment.
🔍Understanding the ethical boundaries in magical practices, including consent and the importance of aligning with natural laws.
Join us for Magic Month! Get 33% off Gary Caton’s Astrological Magic Classes on the Minor Arcana and the 36 Decans as well as his Planetary Hours class for a limited time, plus enter to win a prize in our costume contest! Check it all out here: astrologyhub.com/magic
Transcript:
00:00:00:01 – 00:00:30:00
Amanda
Well. Hello everybody, and welcome to the Astrology Hub podcast. I am so happy that you're here. Thank you for tuning in to this episode. Today we're going to continue exploring the realm of astrological magic. Going deeper this week with fixed stars, deacons, the Minor Arcana, and the tarot. So much to explore. Planetary hours. Magical elections. And if you haven't heard yet, October is Magic month here at Astrology Hub.
00:00:30:00 – 00:01:00:12
Amanda
And what we're really doing is exploring the ways that we can re enchant our everyday lives, how we can reconnect with the sense of magic and wonder that I don't know about you, but I certainly experienced as a child absolutely lost for a long period of time. But then astrology brought back into my life, so we're wanting to share that magic with you and help you explore ways that you can bring it into your life in very practical, tangible ways.
00:01:00:14 – 00:01:34:12
Amanda
There's a lot of things to be disillusioned about in the world today, and so we would like to bring that element of hope and vision and play back into our lives. All right. So as part of magic Month, we are exploring this theme of astrological magic in the various phases of it. Here on the podcast every week, we are also featuring a sale of 33% off all of our astrological magic classes, and that's featuring teachers like Jen Z, Rachel Lang, and our guests here today, Gary, Caden.
00:01:34:14 – 00:01:56:20
Amanda
And we're having a costume contest. So for any of you who have an astrologically themed costume that you would like to submit for our contest, you can just take a picture of yourself in your astrologically themed costume, send it in, and then be eligible to win. There's going to be three winners. We're going to have a People's Choice award.
00:01:57:00 – 00:02:20:06
Amanda
We're going to vote as a team. And so we're going to have some amazing prizes. You can win a membership. You can win some of these astrological classes. So be thinking about ways you can bring the astrology to life in costume. Okay. You can go yeah I know it's not fun. Gary. You can go to astrology.com/magic to submit your photo for the contest and learn more.
00:02:20:06 – 00:02:31:17
Amanda
All about Astrology Hubs Magic month, the different courses we have on sale, etc..
00:02:31:19 – 00:03:03:13
Amanda
So today's guest is Gary Caton who's a transdisciplinary hermetic practitioner integrating diverse traditions, art forms and practices for over 30 years. He was initiated in astrologer by a magnificent dream in 1993. He's since become an accomplished counselor, writer, podcaster, teacher, photographer and mage. He is a true modern wizard and I am so, so happy to have Gary back here on the podcast.
00:03:03:15 – 00:03:05:23
Gary
Thank you Amanda, it's wonderful to be back.
00:03:05:23 – 00:03:34:16
Amanda
Yeah, well, one of the things I've been doing in preparation for Magic Month is rewatching our astrological magic classes. And you said something in one of your classes that just went bam! I love how you just said this. What you said is that we can sanctify time, reincarnate it, make it sacred again. So I'd love to start with that quote, Gary, and just ask you, what is magic to you?
00:03:34:18 – 00:04:00:15
Gary
Yeah. You know, I think it's important to point out that before I was an astrologer, I was studying architecture at Virginia Tech. And, Virginia Tech is an engineering school. So that was very math focused. And I just realized that somehow I can't do this, you know, and in trying to figure out what I did want to do, I realized the thing I wanted was magic.
00:04:00:17 – 00:04:23:07
Gary
That that word, that was the thing I needed to find. And it's kind of like what you were talking about, like when you're a kid and you have that natural sense of the magic of the world. I mean, I remember just being eyes wide open and being completely amazed at the world. And then, you know, it's like, oh, well, you know, stuff happens, life happens.
00:04:23:10 – 00:04:53:16
Gary
And I wanted that enchantment. And so I set out on a journey of, an alchemical journey. Really, in hindsight, I didn't know anything about any of the Hermetic art. But I went looking for magic, and I found astrology. And then it was only later that I learned that astrology is one of three hermetic arts, which include magic and alchemy.
00:04:53:18 – 00:05:21:19
Gary
And so I started to, broaden my, my knowledge base, in my experience base with alchemy practices and with magic practices. And this has really made a huge difference in my career. And being able to carry on because, you know, it's I was in the early vanguard of people who were making their living on the internet as astrologers, you know, and it was not easy.
00:05:21:21 – 00:05:49:23
Gary
It's, you know, social media and stuff made it easier. And, you know, now that now that there's a whole new generation that's a huge influx of people and it's a lot more popular. But the magic and the alchemy definitely helped me to stay active and just survive and just keep going for as long as I have. It would have been really easy to just fade out at some point, you know, because it's it's challenging.
00:05:50:00 – 00:06:16:02
Gary
So I think if I were to say, you know, to answer your question, I think that magic is it's a way of reconnecting with the fundamental life force of the universe. It really reanimate. It's you, your being, your soul. It brings, a soulful energy to your being, to your consciousness, to your life. And that's when you know magic is happening.
00:06:16:02 – 00:06:39:17
Gary
You feel more alive, and it's that. It's that energy that keeps us going through the hard times, you know? And so it's kind of like a way of it's a way you can think of it as a way of recharging your batteries, if you will. You could, you know, when I'm out stargazing. And it's taken me a long time, you know, I've been an avid stargazer for.
00:06:39:17 – 00:07:02:20
Gary
Let's see, 16 years. And, it's only recently begun to occur to me that when I'm out there, you know, and I'm watching the sunrise and I, you know, I think about. I remember when you did a magic ritual, back with the sunrise. Do you remember that? It was. It was our soul work, our home, you know, the homework.
00:07:02:22 – 00:07:25:00
Gary
I was so impressed that the that the CEO of this. I think that was the first time we worked together, actually. And and I was like, wow. She did her homework, and she did it so well. Yeah. That was so cool. I remember you when you saw the I in the in the sun, right. Remember that?
00:07:25:02 – 00:07:25:14
Amanda
Yes.
00:07:25:15 – 00:07:56:22
Gary
Incredible. And so, you know and that that goes like there's this whole mythology of the sun god I assume RA in this eye that he sends out looking for his children. And at the beginning of the universe, you know. Oh, and so when I'm out, I've had experiences when I'm out watching a sunrise, particularly like when I was in North Carolina and like in some wilderness area, and there's literally no humans or even a sign of a human, it's easy to think to yourself, like, what day is it like?
00:07:56:22 – 00:08:32:03
Gary
It's the first day. Like, this is the moment of creation happening again. You know, like this is the this is the process of the world being born again. You know, each day at sunrise, there's this magical creative act that, that we can participate in. And the more that I realize, like, for instance, when I became an astrologer, one of the ways that I figured out what the heck was going on in my dream is I got this book called An Ephemeris.
00:08:32:05 – 00:09:14:00
Gary
And so it's a bunch of tables of planetary positions, like pre computers, right where you had you had to get it in a book because you didn't have it on a website or anything. Right. And for the first ephemeris, the first tables of planetary positions, it took 30 generations of day after day after day of humans walking up these ziggurats of these temple, these sky temples, observing, recording 30 generations of that, you know, and that act of observing and and encoding the heavens and figuring it out, that stands really at the beginning of time as we know it.
00:09:14:00 – 00:09:36:15
Gary
Like that's the beginning of civilization. And so when we go out and we participate in a similar ritual, we're participating in something that goes back to the beginning of time. So it's almost like time travel. But I, I would actually say that it's even more profound than that. And, you know, wow, Gary, what's more profound than time travel?
00:09:36:17 – 00:10:09:04
Gary
Well, going back to the beginning, if we go back to the beginning, even symbolically, if we're participating in something that happened at the beginning where participating in beginning the like, beginning as a thing, like the force of beginning, the force of origin, the force of from audio origin, the Big Bang or whatever you want to call it. You know, like we're participating in this original energy of, of our art.
00:10:09:06 – 00:10:34:09
Gary
And I really when I look back, I think like that's the only way I can explain the incredible things that have happened to me is that the is that essentially stargazing is like ritual magic. It's a it's a it's a ritual for sure. And there's a magical quality to it that enhances your consciousness and enhances your soul and enhances your physical vitality.
00:10:34:11 – 00:10:37:07
Gary
So that's that's a lot.
00:10:37:07 – 00:10:37:23
Amanda
This is an.
00:10:37:24 – 00:10:38:12
Gary
Disturbing.
00:10:38:15 – 00:11:00:00
Amanda
That I'm noticing. But I love it, Gary, because, you know, I've been immersing myself in our astrological magic classes and I'm so I'm hearing you and I'm hearing Gen Z, and I'm hearing Rachel Ling speak about magic. And and then I contrast it to the very superficial understanding of magic that most of us carry or get exposed to.
00:11:00:06 – 00:11:04:00
Amanda
You know, that it's, like you're doing spells and there's wands and there's there's.
00:11:04:00 – 00:11:04:24
Gary
That, you know, there.
00:11:04:24 – 00:11:29:19
Amanda
Is there can be that. But but what what I'm really getting from all of you is it is it is a reconnection with soul. It's your soul. It's the soul of the universe. It's the soul of life itself. Yeah. And there's something so profound about that communion. It's it's such a it's it's first of all, what you're saying is you're you're tuning into the creative force itself.
00:11:29:21 – 00:11:42:03
Amanda
You're tuning into and communing with all of life, with the source of life. And what I love about it, too, is what I'm getting is like it can be very simple, like you said, stargazing. And to me.
00:11:42:03 – 00:11:43:12
Gary
Watch a sunrise.
00:11:43:14 – 00:12:09:00
Amanda
That that's what all that means right now, in this moment, in my time, at this moment in my life, it's paying attention to the sunrise, paying attention to the sunset, having that moment of connection of just like, oh, okay, wow, there's this is a new beginning or this is a this is an ending. And can I give thanks and gratitude and can I just absorb the amazingness of this light that is sharing and emanating all of life?
00:12:09:00 – 00:12:37:17
Amanda
Right. But we can get super complex with it. We can keep it really simple. We can, you know? And that's beautiful. I love that range. Yeah, we all have to explore. So thank you for for sharing it in a way that helps us feel. Yeah, what it's done for your life and how it enriches your days. Because that's what I really hope we convey to our community throughout Magic Month is like, yeah, this is this is more than getting what you want.
00:12:37:21 – 00:12:46:22
Amanda
This is more than manifesting. Yeah, right. This is like actually reincarnating every aspect of your day to day life.
00:12:46:24 – 00:13:22:06
Gary
Yeah. I mean, there's times when I'm out stargazing or watching a sunrise. I mean, I'm literally moved to tears, you know, and it's that capacity for all and wonder, I think, that defines magic. And yeah, you can use it to get things that you need. Absolutely. And there's nothing wrong with that. Assuming that it doesn't violate anyone else's rights or, you know, there's an important thing to mention there that I think it's taken for granted a lot of times, you know, even something seemingly benevolent, like a love spell.
00:13:22:06 – 00:13:34:00
Gary
Well, are you really sure that the person you're trying to get attracted to you is also wanting to be attracted? You know, like there needs to be consent?
00:13:34:02 – 00:14:03:19
Amanda
I'm really glad you bring this up, Gary, because I want to ask you about this. Yeah. And what I meant is it's not just about getting what you want. There's so much more. But you're right, there is an element of, like, bringing our intention into the things that we desire and bring those forth into our lives. But I like that you bring this up, because where is the line between sort of trying to control and manipulate reality in a way that isn't aligned with natural law?
00:14:03:21 – 00:14:13:00
Amanda
And then, you know, playing with this idea of bringing, you know, bringing desire into manifest form. Yeah, in an intentional way.
00:14:13:02 – 00:14:35:13
Gary
Yeah. I mean, there's a few things to think about there. So, you know, one of the things that I try to remind students about, even when just dealing with regular transits, like, you know, we have so much astrological information available at our fingertips now, there's a lot to take in. And, you know, it's this transit and then the next transit and then the next transit.
00:14:35:13 – 00:15:00:00
Gary
And there's and it's like trying to help them figure out, like, does this really matter for me, this particular one, you know, and the thing is not, well, you know, and it depends a lot on your birth chart or your birth chart, in my view. And, and, you know, it's something of a, it assumes some model of reincarnation.
00:15:00:02 – 00:15:29:01
Gary
And I just can't imagine, and I don't I don't pretend to know how in the hell that works, but I just feel that, you know, for instance, like, how in the world would you ever completely grasp astrology without multiple lifetimes of study? You know, it's like it's hard to even imagine. There's there's so much, but, you know, one way that I think about the birth chart is that it's a contract.
00:15:29:01 – 00:16:05:03
Gary
It's a contract between you and the divine powers, you and the universe, however you want to frame that of like, this is what I'm coming here to experience this time around, essentially, like I'm, you know, this is my soul's desire for this incarnation, essentially. Right? And, you know, if if you and I go into business together and we have a contract to do certain things and something comes up that's not in that contract, then we need to have a discussion about like, hey, this, this, do we both want to do this thing?
00:16:05:03 – 00:16:31:09
Gary
And, you know, maybe we can add an addendum to the contract. You know, something. But the point is, if it's not in the contract, then it's outside of the agreed upon, you know, the and so basically what I'm saying is if let's say, for instance, somebody wants to be famous and and God bless you because I'm not so sure I've really wanted to sign up for that sometimes.
00:16:31:11 – 00:16:58:20
Gary
It's a, it's a lot, you know, but let's just say they do. Does the chart indicate that to begin with, you know, do they have, like, their sun? Sun is often has to deal with solar figure, you know, public figures and stuff. Is their son located in a way that would indicate that if not you know, like maybe you would be better off focusing your energy on something that's a little more in line with the original contract.
00:16:58:20 – 00:17:36:19
Gary
Or you can try to modify the contract, you know, and then what would that look like? That it's interesting because one of the things that I used to talk to people about is that because eclipses have this nature of like inverting the light, like the so solar light is darkened or the moon is reddened, or the nodes being like these having to do with fate and karma and whatever I used to think of them as, as like portals where maybe we could, you know, renegotiate the terms of different contractual things.
00:17:36:19 – 00:18:06:13
Gary
And that, it might be worth thinking about if we were to do that, what, you know, to to give ourselves a little bit of room from feeling, you know, hemmed in by the life we've created. And so that's one thing to think about, like, is this does this even align with the birth chart number one. And then number two, you know, for me, I mean, I'm a South Node in Libra, so I'm pretty black and white about this.
00:18:06:13 – 00:18:36:15
Gary
But if I'm doing something that is going to be helpful for me and my family and my friends and my community, there's really no worries because I'm trying to do something helpful. That's white magic for lack of a better term. If I'm doing something that violates someone else's rights or or concern or or is outright wanting to like, let's just say, for instance, that and this is this is a fine line, right?
00:18:36:15 – 00:19:05:07
Gary
Because if you think about it like, let's say I do a spell that I want to be number one and some like, like some ego goal of being number one in some field of endeavor or whatever. What's going to happen. So, so you've got to defeat whoever is number one now. Right. And so, you know, is where, you know, I mean, if it's a fair contest, then maybe that's kind of gray.
00:19:05:07 – 00:19:09:20
Gary
It's certainly not purely white because somebody is going to lose.
00:19:09:22 – 00:19:10:11
Amanda
Right.
00:19:10:13 – 00:19:41:12
Gary
You know, so it's it's kind of it's really complex when you stop to think about it. But you know, for me, being very careful about anything that has like, negative outcomes for anyone, like, I just don't like I'm like, if there's any question in my mind that it's not just totally like, for everyone's good and you might even build that into, like, I know a lot of people when they're doing spell work or whatever in the highest good for all concerned, you know, like add that one at the end.
00:19:41:16 – 00:19:42:01
Gary
Right.
00:19:42:01 – 00:20:18:22
Amanda
Just I always do that. I always do that because like you said, we we think we know what. And it seems like it would be good for everyone, but we don't actually know because we don't know everyone's. Yeah. And plan for life and all that. So I always add that. Yeah. It's just, you know, either this or something better or, in the highest and best for all and then, and then I let it go because I, you know, maybe, maybe the thing I even maybe the thing I think I want is not the thing that's actually going to give me what my soul actually wants to experience.
00:20:18:24 – 00:20:29:11
Amanda
So, yeah, it is, it is if I find out in the beginning you you mentioned that the the Hermetic arts include astrology, magic and alchemy.
00:20:29:13 – 00:20:30:10
Gary
Yes.
00:20:30:12 – 00:20:33:04
Amanda
What's the difference between those three things?
00:20:33:06 – 00:21:03:12
Gary
Yeah. So, in the Emerald Tablet, which is, like, from the Persian Golden Age, it's the Arabic, stream of astrology and magic. It's a famous document. It's a very short document that's sort of cryptic, but it really what it does is it recapitulates the process of creation in and alchemical formula at the end, he says, here in I have laid out the operation of the sun.
00:21:03:14 – 00:21:29:23
Gary
I say here because it's supposed to be Hermes. He's saying this right. And he also says this is part of the three parts of the wisdom of the whole universe. So he's saying there's three parts to the wisdom of the whole universe. And this is the operation of the sun. So alchemy being the operation of the sun, astrology being the operation of the stars, and theology magic being the operation of the moon.
00:21:30:00 – 00:21:56:20
Gary
Whoa. Oh, yeah. Yeah. And and, alchemy is, a purification. It's like you notice how, like, at the beginning of spiritual rituals, though, like burn incense or it's a cleansing. It's a purifying. And so, that's really what alchemy is about. It's about breaking apart something into its primary constituents, purifying them and then putting it back together.
00:21:56:22 – 00:22:19:11
Amanda
Wow, that's so interesting. So interesting. I because I was thinking about the process of transformation that so many of us have gone through, that we go through, that humanity's going through. Yeah. How it feels like this breakdown, you know, total break apart, right? Yeah. And then there's that purifying process where we're getting in alignment with who we really are.
00:22:19:11 – 00:22:46:13
Amanda
We're getting in alignment with our soul contract or our natal promise or whatever. And then coming back and it's it's like Venus's journey or a Nana's journey into the underworld. Is this is that same archetypal, yes, process of transformation? Yes, yes. And so maybe you did that on a different level, like maybe it wasn't. Oh, I'm going to go study alchemy or, you know, because I also didn't go, oh, I'm going to go study alchemy.
00:22:46:16 – 00:23:01:15
Amanda
I didn't even know I was going to be drawn towards astrology, but it was in that breaking apart purification in the purification processes of when astrology came into my life, really. And then, you know. Yeah. So maybe we do go through it naturally.
00:23:01:17 – 00:23:11:00
Gary
Did definitely. Without a doubt. Definitely. Without a doubt. I didn't know what I was doing the first. I just knew I was looking for magic and in the process I got purified. Yeah, I mean, I wait.
00:23:11:05 – 00:23:28:20
Amanda
And think of how many people come to astrology in that process of like, their life has just totally fallen apart, like they're going through a very challenging period of life. Yeah. And then it comes in as this language that then, you know, becomes a North star and leads them out of that darkness. Right?
00:23:29:01 – 00:23:52:04
Gary
Yeah. Yeah. And so yeah. No, I get what you're saying. And yeah, you have to approach the individual and figure out like where they are in their process. Obviously. You know, that's why that's why I don't really have a formal, formal curriculum like anybody that wants to study with me, I custom make the process brand new for each and every person.
00:23:52:04 – 00:24:23:23
Gary
Because every person is unique. They may have already been through. They may not have, you know, and so if they haven't, you know, I probably want to look at, you know, what can we do to make sure that they're not going to get like overloaded? Because, you know, this sacred knowledge can be it's a, it's a lot and it can overload your system and it can be like, it's kind of like if you've ever been through a psychedelic experience, you know, like a ritual where, I don't know, a lot of people take ayahuasca these days.
00:24:23:23 – 00:24:47:19
Gary
I've never taken that. But, if if you, you know, afterwards you need to be cognizant of, like, having someone to help tend to your, your psychic state after that kind of intense experience. That's sort of what I'm talking about. It's just being it's like my job is not simply as a teacher to cram their head full of knowledge.
00:24:47:19 – 00:25:11:22
Gary
Right? It's to be a caretaker of their being and to kind of figure out, like, which one of these three do they actually need more? You know, do they really need to start with astrology right now, or could they use some alchemy. Right. Yeah. And so yeah, it's kind of like that. And and yeah, with the magic, you know, to go back to the psychedelic metaphor, right?
00:25:11:22 – 00:25:53:05
Gary
We know that if you're going to experience a psychedelic, you know, a state of heightened consciousness, the things that determine the qualitative, that experience are the set and the setting. So it's the mind set that you bring to the experience, and it's the setting within which the that largely determines the how that experience goes. And so as magicians, again, if we come with some something of, maybe an egotistical drive or something and we, or we, you know, it's like it's not been purified like there's nothing wrong with wanting to be have a victor, like, be number one.
00:25:53:07 – 00:26:17:14
Gary
Like, that's a healthy drive. But if it's not, if it's not approached, if it's sort of raw and it needs the rough edges knocked off of it, well, guess what? If you invoke magic for something that still needs the rough edges knocked off of it, the first thing you're going to experience is getting those rough edges knocked off, and you're going to think, oh my God, did I just like, mess up?
00:26:17:16 – 00:26:42:24
Gary
You know, this had the opposite effect of what I thought. But it's like, well, you asked for something that requires purification before you can experience the thing you ask for. You see what I'm saying? So it's like you're going to get it one way or the other. Yeah. So, you know, maybe it's gentler to go through the purification first consciously and and intentionally.
00:26:43:01 – 00:26:44:16
Gary
That's all that's you know. And I.
00:26:44:16 – 00:27:04:11
Amanda
Love that. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So Gary, last week we had Rachel laying on the podcast and it was more of an introduction to how to begin working with astrological magic. And she brought in the moon like the moon is. If you just said the moon represents the magic. So it's a great starting point for people when they're wanting to start to learn.
00:27:04:11 – 00:27:36:04
Amanda
Yeah, and we all know it. We can take it much further. So there's planetary hours and magical elections and fixed stars, which recently has very really captivated me. The idea of the fixed stars. Because because of something that you said about the cross that that the, the four royal fixed stars specifically, they're holding the cross of matter in place with their positions.
00:27:36:06 – 00:27:43:24
Amanda
So can you, can you talk about fixed stars, first of all, how they play into magic? And and then I have a bazillion questions.
00:27:44:01 – 00:28:10:13
Gary
So of course. So a couple things to remember about fixed stars is, is to contrast them to planets. And where, you know, the moon is a planet in astrology because, you know, there's seven visible planets. We call them planets because planet means wandering star, right? And the moon is the most wandering of all. Like, she moves 13 degrees every night, you know?
00:28:10:13 – 00:28:46:15
Gary
And if you're blessed with clear skies, you can see that really dramatically. So the word planet means wandering star. And that's specifically meant to contrast against the fixed stars of the constellations. That have a more fixed and therefore eternal quality. Right. And, and in Neoplatonic philosophy, like, for instance, Plato, in Timaeus, he talks about contrasting the motion of the planets with the stars, in that he calls one the circle of the same, and the other is the circle of the other.
00:28:46:17 – 00:29:25:06
Gary
And in philosophy, sameness and or being is another word they use. It's like this is closer to divine energy and otherness. Would be becoming what they talk about becoming. So as mortal beings, we're in the process of becoming. But in as divinity, they're in the process of being. Right. So there's a contrast there. And so the stars, because they revolve around the heavens once per day, all at relatively the same speed, there's this quality of being to them that is not as much about becoming like the like.
00:29:25:06 – 00:29:52:10
Gary
The orbits of the planets are and, and furthermore, in the Ptolemaic cosmos, the planets are in this series of spheres that surround the Earth and sort of and in some really extreme cases, they were seen as like jailers even. But, even in the less deterministic view, they are, sort of administered orders of fate, if you will, the planets.
00:29:52:12 – 00:30:26:18
Gary
Okay. But the stars exist in a sphere higher than that. And so it's so the so the energy of fixed stars is almost like it's, it's above and beyond this, these spheres of fate that we associate with the planets. And so there's a transcendent quality to them that is that and so they were associated with eminence, for instance, you know, like being raised up to heights in, in the social hierarchy.
00:30:26:20 – 00:30:50:22
Gary
At the same time, because this is such a high energy. Right. If you if you slip and fall from a great height, it's going to hurt a little bit more. You know? And so, they, you know, they had this term astro low Beatles. You can be starstruck. You could be you can be sort of mad with the sort of Dionysian passion of this starry energy.
00:30:50:22 – 00:31:16:06
Gary
But but you can get carried away with that too, like in these, you know, and and and get brought back down. And so these are very powerful beings. I mean, when you think about stars and what they are, they are like our sun and but in fact, most of them are more intense than our sun is a pretty average star.
00:31:16:08 – 00:31:46:00
Gary
And many of these stars, like, I'll do brown, for instance, is a red giant. It's like huge, you know, and and so if you think of them as like these beings and they, they, you know, we really are literally stardust like the, the, the, the heavier elements in our bodies, carbon and so on is all formed in the last stages of a star compressing and then spewing the seeds of life across the universe, you know.
00:31:46:00 – 00:32:10:19
Gary
So these they are really like the creative engines of the universe, you know. And so this is a lot of power to plug into. And, you know, I mean, we can use different examples, but if you when you begin to look at people like, for instance, Donald Trump, he has, a lot of these fixed stars in his chart.
00:32:10:21 – 00:32:29:01
Gary
And if you think about, like, this idea of standing outside of fate, like this guy has been through so many things, they tried to cancel them. They tried to, you know, throw them in jail. They tried to assassinate him, and he's still here. It's like, love him or hate him. You got to admit, that's pretty freakin remarkable.
00:32:29:03 – 00:32:39:13
Amanda
You know, it's funny because it's funny. You bring that up because this last summer when we had something was conjunct Algol. What was it, the North Node conjunct Algol?
00:32:39:15 – 00:32:41:12
Gary
It might have been.
00:32:41:12 – 00:32:45:24
Amanda
Yeah. It was something. It was something. Algol was like front and center because it was was there.
00:32:45:24 – 00:32:46:08
Gary
Yeah.
00:32:46:09 – 00:32:52:14
Amanda
Yeah. Something that was happening and that was that. Right. When that, assassination attempt.
00:32:52:14 – 00:32:53:20
Gary
Oh that's right. Yeah.
00:32:53:22 – 00:32:55:01
Amanda
And I remember.
00:32:55:03 – 00:32:59:15
Gary
When that happened, it was crazy seeing it in a bar in Europe. I was like, right.
00:32:59:17 – 00:33:23:23
Amanda
Right. Exactly. So but what it what it made me start thinking is because because you astrologers always talk about how the slower moving planets are even more potent. You know, they're there, even though we feel they're they're slow churn of transformation even more potently. So then I was like, whoa! But the fixed hours, they're even slower. They're really slow.
00:33:24:00 – 00:33:29:06
Amanda
So do we feel them even more than a Pluto or or.
00:33:29:08 – 00:33:31:04
Gary
Yeah, way, way more.
00:33:31:04 – 00:33:42:14
Amanda
Yeah. Which is amazing because I don't feel like we talk about that very much, because it's really only when the fixed star is conjunct something, right? It's not when it's making any sort of angles. Correct.
00:33:42:14 – 00:34:01:12
Gary
Yeah. Well, I mean, if you have a fixed star on an angle, like for instance, he has, Mars conjunct Regulus on his ascendant, he referring back to the orange one. Sorry if that's a trigger for people, but it's. I'm neither pro. No, I've never voted for or against the man, so you know. But it's just an example.
00:34:01:14 – 00:34:25:15
Gary
But he has Mars conjunct Regulus on the ascendant, and then he has Algol on the midheaven. But there's no planet there. But it's his midheaven, you know, and it's this very intense energy. By the way, our goal is probably one of the most powerful stars in it is the Zeus himself carried the image of Algol on his Egis.
00:34:25:16 – 00:34:35:04
Gary
Zeus and Athena both the Athena, his daughter. Right. So this is like this is a very, very powerful protective image.
00:34:35:06 – 00:34:49:03
Amanda
Would you say, as far as astrological magic goes, then, that approaching them and creating ritual or ceremony with their energy is even more like advanced, like it would be?
00:34:49:03 – 00:35:08:22
Gary
Yeah for sure. Yeah. For sure. I mean, I'll be honest with you, when I first started out in astrological magic, there were older, more experienced magicians who warned me, like, you don't know what you're messing with, blah blah, blah. And I kind of took it with a grain of salt at the time because I'm an Aries and I'm going to do what I want.
00:35:08:22 – 00:35:36:09
Gary
You know? But but I get it now, you know, like, if you if you, aren't careful, like, think of it this way. Like, nothing in the universe is free. Everything, like nothing is created or destroyed. Like there's no such that, you know, the concept of, conservation of energy. So if you're going to receive some kind of energy, you're going to be giving something as well.
00:35:36:09 – 00:36:15:11
Gary
And like, for instance, alcohol. I used to never work with alcohol, but I was out watching the Persian meteor shower and, it just occurred to me like, wow, these meteors are radiating from this constellation Perseus, which is where our goal is, right? Perseus, the hero, is holding the head of our goal. And at that moment when I had that, realization, she spoke to me, and she invited me to work with her, and I was like, whoa, I'm very honored, but can I ask a few questions before I say yes or no?
00:36:15:11 – 00:36:39:17
Gary
Like, you know, like, what am I getting myself into here? You know? And I asked her, like, is it okay, for instance, to make money if I'm going to be doing this, you know, and she told me, oh, yeah. Like if you increase my cult of worship, if you bring more devotional energy my way, then you can you can absolutely make a profit in the process of that.
00:36:39:17 – 00:36:43:07
Gary
That's not a problem, she told me. And I was like, okay.
00:36:43:09 – 00:36:45:23
Amanda
Why does she need that or want that?
00:36:46:00 – 00:37:09:15
Gary
Well, again, you know, the way that the way that, Krishna put it in the Bhagavad Gita is that it's, it's a, it's just an energy flow, like they're bringing the world into existence and out and us giving the devotional energy back keeps the energy flowing so that the world can keep being recreated. Like that idea with the sun that the sun rising creates the world anew.
00:37:09:15 – 00:37:23:24
Gary
Well, it's not just free. It's not just like me being there. Devotional witnessing. That was my part of of feeding the energy back into, creative loop.
00:37:24:01 – 00:37:54:24
Amanda
Wow. It also could be that the the truth of their story. Yes, our story needs to be told as well, because I know with our goal specifically, there's so much misunderstanding. Right. The demon star and that, you know, there's like, all these things cast on her that probably she's she's like, this is a total misunderstanding and misinterpretation. And as long as that story remains in place, there will continue to be tumultuous ness around these topics.
00:37:54:24 – 00:37:58:23
Amanda
And if we can in truth, in light to these actual stories.
00:37:59:01 – 00:38:04:13
Gary
I get what you're saying. To be clear, she's never tasked me with that.
00:38:04:15 – 00:38:32:03
Amanda
It's really just been about, like, devotion to algo, but, but, but even in the devotion to algo, Gary hurt the the even even in the inner circle. We've been having discussions about what does algo really represent? Yeah. And especially at this point in time with the with the feminine essence and like, what is she not. So even just by bringing awareness to her presence, those conversations are already happening.
00:38:32:05 – 00:38:34:18
Amanda
Whether or not it was explicit. Right. Exactly.
00:38:34:19 – 00:39:00:02
Gary
Doing that. That's what I'm that's what I'm saying. Like I think that's going to happen. Like I think she just wants me to bring attention and that the she'll take care of those things happening. Yeah. And it's interesting because, you know, each one of these stars is associated. So there's this idea. So we've talked about the philosophy of the, of the primary motion of being more like being rather than becoming.
00:39:00:02 – 00:39:40:12
Gary
And we've talked about them, the Ptolemaic cosmos being higher and more transcendent. The other thing that, when we work with these stars, because they're higher, there's a need for this, chain of correspondences that we build sort of a ladder of an energetic ladder to, to connect with them. And so in this, in this, in the original, transmission of these 15 bikini and stars that we use in hermetic magic, each one was given a stone, a plant and a symbol and also a sigil.
00:39:40:14 – 00:40:08:23
Gary
And so if you think about it like the mineral kingdom, like it's like this, you know, it's this earthy, you know, energy. And then the plant kingdom, it's a little bit, and then an animal that's associated with it. And then a sigil would be like more a mental plane. So you're building this, these layers of correspondence that's like this ladder of energetic, rod that you can sort of communicate through.
00:40:09:00 – 00:40:34:18
Gary
Right. And, and one of the other ways to do that is that each one of these stars was also said to correlate to, a pair of planets. And with our goal, for instance, the planets that she correlates to are Jupiter and Saturn. And so, as I said, like, you know, Jupiter himself were the shield of of alcohol on his shield on as it ages.
00:40:34:20 – 00:41:11:14
Gary
Right? But it's also Saturn. And Saturn is a very difficult taskmaster, you know, and so, I think that's where the kind of, you know, edgy energy, but it's, it's it's important to remember she's like Jupiter and Saturn. She, she really does have a sweet, loving side. But I think, I think the, the sort of other quality that gets focused on like way, way, way more, you know, and so I'm with you 100% that it would be great to, for people to understand her better.
00:41:11:16 – 00:41:20:18
Gary
And really but to me, like the only way well, not the only way, but the main way to do that is to get to know her yourself. You know.
00:41:20:20 – 00:41:51:12
Amanda
This is what I love that you're illustrating, Gary, because at the end of the day, we can memorize spells. We can we can emulate rituals. We can do things. According to the book. But at the end of the day, it is that communion, that individual communion with the animating forces of life. And so the fact that you're saying, you know, you're walking in the forest and Algol is talking to you, I mean, I know this is sincere, this is real.
00:41:51:12 – 00:41:54:16
Amanda
And for a lot of people that might be like, what? Like, is he going crazy?
00:41:54:16 – 00:42:15:17
Gary
Right? Look, I, I tend more towards the, you know, the, the Clares, they talk about spiritual the Clares. I tend more towards Clare audience than most. I think, you know, most people have one of those that stands out. And I'm a hearing kind of, an auditory way to, you know, other people might feel things. They might. There's different ways.
00:42:15:17 – 00:42:31:16
Gary
I'm not saying she's going to talk to everybody like that. Probably not. But you can you can definitely get form a relationship, you know, that's unique to you. Yes. And I think that's the thing, you know. Yeah.
00:42:31:18 – 00:42:41:17
Amanda
Gary, I promised that we would touch on deacons. Yeah. Can we just talk about how deacons plan to astrological magic practices?
00:42:41:19 – 00:43:19:09
Gary
Yeah. So deacons are another topic that is, interesting in the sense that they they came from Egypt. Right? So they came so there they are. Free horoscope like astrology. In other words, horse graphic astrology is like, you know, the the, the horse cope well with the, you know, ascendant and, 12 houses and everything. The deacons were a way of dividing the heavens, not by 12 signs, but by, ten degree segments of, of so there's 36 of them.
00:43:19:11 – 00:43:52:21
Gary
Right. And there were certain gods that were assigned to each decan and certain images and so forth. And because they are prior to and in fact, in some of the hermetic, which is a group of hermetic texts, you know, that some of the earliest hermetic, are devoted like to the deacons. And so I think of it like if you ever saw The Lion, the witch and the wardrobe, you know, Aslan versus the ice Queen, right?
00:43:52:21 – 00:44:19:17
Gary
And the ice Queen is trying to, you know, she she tricks the one boy. I think his name was Edward. She tricks him into betraying his friends, you know? And and then she's gonna she's gonna she's got control over his soul now because of that. Like, that's that's basically how evil works. And, as long as, like, yeah, you know, according to the, you know, laws, whatever, you have a right to that.
00:44:19:17 – 00:44:51:06
Gary
But according to the deep magic, if someone is willing to sacrifice for him like that, that, the the deep magic supersedes that law. And so Aslan then and Aslan is I think most people see that as a clear allegory for Christ, you know, sacrifices. But, this idea of, like, the deep magic of this, of this deeper thing that came before the the horse got back to stuff.
00:44:51:08 – 00:45:23:08
Gary
I feel like that's, applicable to the deacons. And so it's similar to fixed stars in that it's, it's maybe a way to if we get constricted, like. Yeah, you know, like they're the, the, the birth chart and, and and and really just human nature. We get stuck, we stop growing. And so the deacons in the fixed stars are really great catalysts to like, get the process going again.
00:45:23:10 – 00:46:02:17
Gary
You know, get us unstuck. And because they exist outside of these arbiters of fate that the planets represent, you know, and one of my favorite ways to, work with the deacons is through the Minor Arcana of the tarot. Right. Because in the Golden Dawn system, there are, you know, 36 deacons. And so if you divide up the, the cards and you leave the aces out because this is our special, you get the two, three and four will be the, the the, the deacon of the cardinal sign of an element.
00:46:02:19 – 00:46:24:18
Gary
Okay. So the cardinal sign will represent the two three. And for the fixed sign will represent the five, six and seven. Yeah. And then the eight, nine and ten will be the mutable sign of that element. Right. So like for instance, two of wands is the first de Canterbury's right. Three of wands is the second kind of areas and so forth.
00:46:24:22 – 00:46:54:02
Gary
Okay. And so these cards can become talismans then in a way, you know, and like here's this, hey, this this story, this is, this is this will just give you an inkling of like, the possibilities. So when Mars was finishing up his sojourn through the. So in this system, by the way, the first decan and the last decan belonged to Mars.
00:46:54:02 – 00:47:22:01
Gary
Mars rules the first two kind of Aries and the last decan. And, MacGregor Mathers was the author of the Golden Dawn material. Most of it, he says that it's because there's this tremendous energy that's required to overcome the cold of winter, you know? Okay. But when Mars was in the last kind of Pisces and that's so the mutable is the eight, nine and ten of that suit, right?
00:47:22:01 – 00:47:55:16
Gary
So that's the ten of cups and one of the most beautiful, beneficent looking car. I mean, there's this rainbow above, this happy couple, and the child's dancing. I mean, it's gorgeous, right? And so I was playing around with, I art at the time and I was playing around with, blockchain technology. And so what I did is I created this image of that, and then I uploaded it to the blockchain, as an NFT, really.
00:47:55:16 – 00:48:21:09
Gary
It was kind of an experiment, like a do these deacons work? I was pretty sure they did. But like, you need to experience it to really know and and like be can NFTs be talismans and and so I did this ten of Cups talisman and at the time I was living in North Carolina and my, my wife and I had been renting there for about six years.
00:48:21:09 – 00:48:46:13
Gary
We've been saving our money where like, we she got a place for us to stay through work that was like cheap. And so we were just saving money, saving money, and eventually we wanted to buy cash so that we could like, you know, be semi-retired or whatever, you know, well, when the pandemic hit, inflation went crazy and all of a sudden people could live anywhere they want and work, you know, from remote.
00:48:46:15 – 00:49:14:02
Gary
So of course, everybody wanted to be in Asheville. And so the prices went through the roof. So we we just we were priced out of the market there. We had a fixed price. Like this is how much money we actually have. If we want to buy cash like we cannot. So I started looking up and down the Blue Ridge Parkway, and I ended up, coming back to Virginia, where I'm from, and we found a place and we had been living there about two weeks.
00:49:14:02 – 00:49:34:23
Gary
And there's I live like only about a half a mile from the new River. So there's fog that comes up from the river of most mornings. So it's foggy out. And I saw the sun coming up. And this is my, my, my office faces east northeast. And, so the sun coming up in the way it was, the sun was coming through.
00:49:34:23 – 00:50:01:15
Gary
The fog caught my attention. I was like, ooh, that looks magical. I'm going outside, you know? So I go up there and I had heard about this phenomenon before. But, you know, because I've published, you know, my astrophotography online for many years and I've seen what other people do. And there's this phenomenon, it's called a broch inspector. And it's where the sun shines in into the fog and, like, throws your shadow into the fog.
00:50:01:15 – 00:50:23:14
Gary
And there's like, this huge shadow with a with a rainbow around it. And when I got up to the top of the hill, I saw this huge rain. Like a fog bow. Essentially, I didn't see the the shadow thing yet, but I, I thought something in my mind said, this thing that I'm seeing, this fog, is related to that other thing that I've seen in pictures.
00:50:23:14 – 00:50:42:16
Gary
And something in my mind was like this, this thing that is it's happening. And I started to get excited. And then this other thing in my mind is like, these angels were literally on one shoulder or any other in, I think things like, what's the chances of that? I was like, is that that's that's crazy. It's not that's not happening.
00:50:42:18 – 00:51:03:21
Gary
And then the other part kind of spoke back and like, but what if it is? And I was like, I ran down to the house and got my camera. And sure enough, I witnessed this phenomenon happening. And so I now I live in a place I did this talisman for this card. That's that's literally this, this rainbow over a house.
00:51:03:23 – 00:51:29:18
Gary
And I didn't I wasn't even trying to get that, I didn't have, like, this in it, even though I was actually, in the process of looking for a home, it didn't occur to me that that was that that outcome was what I was trying to achieve. I was just doing my art, you know, but I ended up with living in a place where and I've, I've seen, like, probably in the order of dozens of these phenomena.
00:51:29:19 – 00:52:03:03
Gary
Now, this, this place is like, perfectly aligned where these where you get these, you know, fog bowls and then there's this, this rainbow around my shadow. It's like it's it's like, and I, I, I can't help but think like that, doing that decan. Talisman for the Ten of Cups. Like, had something to do with me winding up here in this place that just magically creates these, this natural phenomenon.
00:52:03:03 – 00:52:09:08
Gary
You know, like the three, they've got to be related. I can't think otherwise.
00:52:09:10 – 00:52:13:23
Amanda
That's amazing. I'm sorry. Did did the NFT work?
00:52:14:04 – 00:52:18:03
Gary
Well, that's what I'm saying. I think I'm pretty sure it did. Like, you know.
00:52:18:03 – 00:52:19:02
Amanda
I see I see.
00:52:19:03 – 00:52:21:23
Gary
What I'm saying, like, it's pretty un mystical.
00:52:22:00 – 00:52:23:23
Amanda
In a bigger way. In a bigger.
00:52:24:03 – 00:52:42:12
Gary
Way? Yeah. Than than I had even imagined. Like, you know, ten of Cups, like, you know, the standard interpretations is just like, emotional fulfillment and whatever. Yeah. And I've had that too, like, literally when I was in Spain, you know, I got called over there by a woman who was a student of a student, like, I didn't even know her.
00:52:42:12 – 00:53:11:07
Gary
I didn't know, like, I knew that my student was bilingual, and I knew that she was teaching Spanish speaking people. But I had no idea the breadth of that. And one of her students contacted me and said, hey, it's important that, you know. How important you are. But I get choked up even just thinking about, she she invited me over to Spain, and I traveled with her company on the Camino Santiago.
00:53:11:07 – 00:53:51:05
Gary
And it was so like, the whole experience was just so emotionally fulfilling. It was literally like those ten cups overflowing. I was just like, felt so good to know that this art takes care of itself. Like, if you if you pass it on to people who are also good caretakers, they pass it on and to see it before my eyes, like transcending crossing oceans and language barriers and being alive and and changing people's lives and giving them wonderful experiences like that was.
00:53:51:07 – 00:53:56:05
Gary
It's a dream come true. Yeah. Yeah.
00:53:56:07 – 00:54:45:05
Amanda
Wow. Okay. So you have just taken us on a journey though, a journey that, like I said in the beginning, helps us feel instead of telling what astrological magic is all about and what it can bring into our lives and the continual wonder, the continual, the continual, like overflowing of experience and stories to tell. And that is our hope for all of you in this exploration of astrological magic, that whether you start with alchemy or you start with magic, or you start with astrology, or you dabble in all of it, that it has helped to bring that childlike wonder back into your life and a very consistent basis.
00:54:45:07 – 00:55:04:00
Amanda
So, Gary, thank you for everything that you've shared with us. You well, thank you for continuing to do your own practice and have your own experiences, because then you can share those with us and encourage others to have their own experiences. We learn so much from from each other stories. Yeah. So thank you for that.
00:55:04:02 – 00:55:06:10
Gary
And thank you for the opportunity.
00:55:06:12 – 00:55:34:05
Amanda
For any of you wanting to go deeper. We have several of Gary's astrological magic classes as part of Magic Month, so you can go to Astrology hub.com/magic and explore the different classes we have with Gary, one on the Dickens and the Minor Arcana, which he just started talking about, one that begins to introduce you to fixed stars, one that will get you oriented around planetary hours and magical elections.
00:55:34:11 – 00:55:58:19
Amanda
But we've we've named Gary's classes as intermediate because they're like, once you have some of the foundations down there, they're a great next step in your astrological magic journey. Gen arts are when you're ready to go even deeper and like, create your own labs and like to like all kinds of amazing things. So this is a great a it's, Gary's a very accessible teacher.
00:55:58:21 – 00:56:04:12
Amanda
He makes it really tangible, really real. It's you're a beautiful teacher. I love the way that you teach.
00:56:04:14 – 00:56:07:02
Gary
Earth, sun, moon. I like to make things practical.
00:56:07:02 – 00:56:31:00
Amanda
Yeah. Yes, it is practical. So check those classes out. Be thinking about your best astrologically themed costume. Yeah, but it together take a place for fun. I mean, that's love and love and it's so endless. I mean, really, you can. I started thinking, like, what? What would astrologically themed costumes look like? And it's just like, oh my God, you, you.
00:56:31:02 – 00:56:32:18
Gary
Sky's the limit.
00:56:32:20 – 00:56:49:09
Amanda
There's no limit. We said at the same time. But yes. And, take pictures of yourself, send it in. Same link. Astrology webcomic. We'll put those links in the show notes if you're driving and you can't write them down, don't worry. But Gary, just thank you again so much for being here. It's been such a.
00:56:49:11 – 00:56:52:24
Gary
Wonderful to be here with you again. Yeah. Thank you everybody.
00:56:53:01 – 00:57:09:07
Amanda
All right everybody, thank you so much for tuning into this episode, for making astrology a part of your life, for being a part of our community. We are so grateful for you. We'll catch you on the next episode. We'll be going even deeper into astrological magic with Jen Z next week. All right, take care everybody.
